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Win
04-25-2010, 07:36 PM
'BOTTING 101'

CONTENTS:
1. Rule of Thumb
2. How Jagex decides if you bot
Other platforms
Robotz In Disguise
3. Misc. Information




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RULE OF THUMB:

Jagex, being a massive corporate company run by thousands of employees, must stick to a systematic process in doing anything in order to operate with high-efficiency and avoid any mistakes due to their giant customer usage.


With that in mind, they cannot and will not ban a player without conclusive evidence that point to macroing.Therefore, anything but what is listed below is probably not enough evidence for them to hand out a ban; only suspicion. Keep that in mind when you wonder, "is this detectable?". :)





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HOW JAGEX DECIDES IF YOU BOT:
Quick and simple run-down on the various elements Jagex examines for botters.

Other platforms
(not produced by Robotz In Disguise)

Controlled by programmer

Spoof data/packets/objects/npc's,
Poor programming,

Detectable algorithms.



Controlled by user

Inhuman playtime,
HTTP referrer,
Admitting that you macro either by saying it upfront (accidental or purposeful) or revealing enough information about your account thus linking you to basically admitting it

Offences given however are usually less severe; "Encouraging others to break rules", rather than, "Macroing".




In the end, a large sum of it comes down to the experience of the programmer that wrote the bot and his ability to avoid Jagex's detection methods.




You are at your own risk to try other bots programmed by other programmers with unknown experiences in the programming field.

Robotz In Disguise

With RiD, you are assured with a highly professional programmer to insure your account's safety.
Only three methods are possible when using RiD: inhuman playtime, HTTP referrer, and admitting/revealing too much account information.

All of which are managed by the user; you are in complete control.






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MISC. INFORMATION:



Being reported or having banned accounts on your IP address only results in your account being flagged and later checked upon. Thus, being reported while using any undetectable platform/bot and following all the points above is harmless.

Thus, an autotalker is not an actual necessity.


It's a must for Jagex to every so often clear out the logs (containing information whether you've botted) as they do not have unlimited storage.

So, if you think you've autoed on a platform/bot that has made you vulnerable to detection, wait a good 6 months or more without being reported or getting your account checked on to insure that you don't get banned.


It's rumored that they make a mandatory check on your account for macroing when you get a stat above 90.




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That's pretty much it. Happy botting. ;)


Credits also to Exarctus (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/member.php?316-Exarctus) and NightBlade09 (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/member.php?2175-NightBlade09) for clarifying and/or supplying more information about various botting/detection techniques and bots to insure the accuracy of this post.

Ethan
04-26-2010, 02:25 AM
all of your posts are formated so nicely :D

Triggerfinger
04-26-2010, 04:21 AM
This will probably answer a lot of questions. I posted this in someone else's topic, might as well post it here incase other people are wondering:

Quick and simple run-down on how they detect if someone macros:

Constant random failure, excessive playtime, spoof data (Nexus bots/reflection), detectable algorithms and reverse engineering (RSBot/BCEL) are their only ways of deciding if you macro through in-game.

Only one of which is possible when using RiD: excessive playtime.

HTTP referrer and admitting that you macro either by saying it upfront or revealing enough information about your account thus linking you to basically admitting it are misc. ways of deciding.


Other info:

Being reported only results to them checking if your account breaks a rule, by using the detection methods above. Thus, being reported while using RiD is harmless.
Having banned accounts on your IP address only increases suspicion and most likely to being flagged, but doesn't necessarily bring danger (just like being reported). As long as you still use RiD correctly (no excessive playtime) they still have no way of banning you.
It's rumored that they check on your account for macroing when you get a stat above 90.


Other then that, that's pretty much it, happy botting. ;)

is it true about the rumor of them checking your account if u get a stat above 90? Does getting a 99 skill via one of the bots pose any danger to the account if stuck to the guidelines?

Win
04-26-2010, 06:09 AM
No way to prove it, but seems quite possible and logical. If a botter can bot once, why not all the way to 99. Might aswell catch them when they're almost there to do more damage. That's the way I see it, and it's been proven effective.

With RiD, nope. Lots of people focus on one skill till it's 99, it's called a goal. ;) But if you're asking if they check accounts that constantly train one skill, I highly doubt it, contrary to the word floating around.

Anyway, there's nothing but one thing you need to worry about if you use RiD [only].

Win
04-26-2010, 06:24 PM
eww who moved this... its suppose to be in the knowledge base to help ppl new to rid wondering if rid is safe :[

sandman484
04-28-2010, 09:09 AM
lol yous think so ??

anoobaccount
04-29-2010, 02:13 AM
true. this is why my personal opinion is that RiD should implement "times" rather than target # of ores (talking about powerminer, but instead of target ores it could be the target about of XP or w/e its called for other bots [i dont know because i have $0 credit] ). and possibly making a time limit 'cap' at 24 hours.

basically what i am saying is instead of the # of ores (again, reference to powerminer) or XP there should be an option to put in how many hours you want (under 24 hours). this could be an option, im not submitting my idea in hopes that it becomes permanent or mandatory but it would benefit all bot users and make the RiD bot even more undetectable.

thankyou for hopefully reading my post.

-anoob

Win
04-29-2010, 02:21 AM
i w ud agree but rid is too busy making fixes to the actual bot and making new ones, so rather, i just recommend u type in the amount of ore u w ant to mine, and it should estimate how much time it will take and go off that, i know it's not a direct input but it would just complicate t hings adding a new way of inputting the amount/time/xp, e tc

Vittitow
04-29-2010, 02:45 AM
Just like to point out, if you are banned for using RID because of botting excessively and your IP is flagged, even if you no longer bot excessively, you will be banned until you break the chain.

Win
04-29-2010, 02:49 AM
dats not true vittitow, flagging just makes them check ur acc more, it doesnt give them any evidence to ban your new acc, even if its flagged

Exarctus
05-03-2010, 05:39 PM
Constant random failure, excessive playtime, spoof data (Nexus bots/reflection), detectable algorithms and reverse engineering (RSBot/BCEL) are their only ways of deciding if you macro through in-game.

I wasn't going to post originally, but I think you should change that thread and remove the false statements. It really does annoy me when people post these bull shit statements in order to scare users on their sites away from other sites. It's really immature.

Reflection isn't detectable, at all. Don't know where you got that from.

Nexus isn't detectable, again, probably someones fed you the wrong sorts of information, but Nexus is just as "detectable" as RiD is, in terms of the platform content (i.e, not detectable).

BCEL (RsBots.net) is only thought to be "detectable" by those who have no knowledge of it. BCEL is not detectable in the current bots that use it, but can be depending on how a programmer uses it. RsBot has an extremely capable dev team, so their use of BCEL is well educated and safe. They'd have to be pretty stupid to use BCEL in a way which will cause a mass-ban.

All the sites that you've posted false information about have been in the RS cheating scene long before RiD has. If their methods of field manipulation were detectable, they would not be alive today.

thedangerman
05-03-2010, 06:08 PM
I wasn't going to post originally, but I think you should change that thread and remove the false statements. It really does annoy me when people post these bull shit statements in order to scare users on their sites away from other sites. It's really immature.

Reflection isn't detectable, at all. Don't know where you got that from.

Nexus isn't detectable, again, probably someones fed you the wrong sorts of information, but Nexus is just as "detectable" as RiD is, in terms of the platform content (i.e, not detectable).

BCEL (RsBots.net) is only thought to be "detectable" by those who have no knowledge of it. BCEL is not detectable in the current bots that use it, but can be depending on how a programmer uses it. RsBot has an extremely capable dev team, so their use of BCEL is well educated and safe. They'd have to be pretty stupid to use BCEL in a way which will cause a mass-ban.

All the sites that you've posted false information about have been in the RS cheating scene long before RiD has. If their methods of field manipulation were detectable, they would not be alive today.


The ONLY way to make a 100% undetectable Bot is to read the game data just like a human would: Color / Shape recognition

Jagex could detect Reflection bots by offering them spoof data, and see if they react different. A color detection bot will not be affected by that, as it will only look for things on your game screen.

Adam
05-03-2010, 06:44 PM
I wasn't going to post originally, but I think you should change that thread and remove the false statements. It really does annoy me when people post these bull shit statements in order to scare users on their sites away from other sites. It's really immature.

Reflection isn't detectable, at all. Don't know where you got that from.

Nexus isn't detectable, again, probably someones fed you the wrong sorts of information, but Nexus is just as "detectable" as RiD is, in terms of the platform content (i.e, not detectable).

BCEL (RsBots.net) is only thought to be "detectable" by those who have no knowledge of it. BCEL is not detectable in the current bots that use it, but can be depending on how a programmer uses it. RsBot has an extremely capable dev team, so their use of BCEL is well educated and safe. They'd have to be pretty stupid to use BCEL in a way which will cause a mass-ban.

All the sites that you've posted false information about have been in the RS cheating scene long before RiD has. If their methods of field manipulation were detectable, they would not be alive today.

So what your saying is that the 1000's of users banned for using bots other then RiD are all lying? Let me let you in on a little programming knowledge. When a server is telling your client what is in what space on the screen/inventory and you program a bot to read the id of what ever is in the inventory. Nothing prevents them from changing the id to what ever they want to see if you suddenly stop clicking or follow a known pattern that signifies a bot failing. I really hate to break it to you to, its totally detectable and your fucked.
"All the sites that you've posted false information about have been in the RS cheating scene long before RiD has. If their methods of field manipulation were detectable, they would not be alive today" Yeah again mmorpgs and botting existed way before Runescape ever did and it was proven a long time ago, its really easy to determine if someone is reading from memory, attempting to alter it, or spoofing packets. Gf noob.

Win
05-03-2010, 06:47 PM
I wasn't going to post originally, but I think you should change that thread and remove the false statements. It really does annoy me when people post these bull shit statements in order to scare users on their sites away from other sites. It's really immature.

Reflection isn't detectable, at all. Don't know where you got that from.

Nexus isn't detectable, again, probably someones fed you the wrong sorts of information, but Nexus is just as "detectable" as RiD is, in terms of the platform content (i.e, not detectable).

BCEL (RsBots.net) is only thought to be "detectable" by those who have no knowledge of it. BCEL is not detectable in the current bots that use it, but can be depending on how a programmer uses it. RsBot has an extremely capable dev team, so their use of BCEL is well educated and safe. They'd have to be pretty stupid to use BCEL in a way which will cause a mass-ban.

All the sites that you've posted false information about have been in the RS cheating scene long before RiD has. If their methods of field manipulation were detectable, they would not be alive today.

Sorry, but your only argument was basically, 'if it were detectable, then no one would be using it because they would all be banned'. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and it doesn't prove shit.

To detect Nexus, it requires the 'spoof data detection' "test" setup for the particular script in order to correctly acknowledge that it is reading client code, rather then on-screen information. Jagex cannot setup a test for every single script that the community makes, so it is technically true in a sense, that Nexus is undetectable, as long as Jagex hasn't setup the test for that particular script.

As for RSBot, same rules apply, it would obviously take time to reverse engineer the information being sent from the user's client to verify if it's been manipulated by an injected software. They would no way be able to catch the hundreds of thousands of people that use BCEL. Therefore, under, I say it's rumored they have tests for anyone that is over or close to level 90 in a skill. Lowering the numbers drastically, however, still effectively catching the "more serious" botters.

Now, none of this I can prove evidently, but unfortunately, as an argument, it stands better than yours. So, whoever is reading I'd best be safe by trusting the one with logical "proof". Rather then unevaluated "statistical none sense".

Shout out to Auxilium, i kanz0r b srs if i want 2 b ;)

Exarctus
05-03-2010, 08:31 PM
The ONLY way to make a 100% undetectable Bot is to read the game data just like a human would: Color / Shape recognition

Jagex could detect Reflection bots by offering them spoof data, and see if they react different. A color detection bot will not be affected by that, as it will only look for things on your game screen.

Just because someone has told you something, doesn't mean it's correct. Reflection doesn't offer "spoof" data, it doesn't offer any data at all.



Sorry, but your only argument was basically, 'if it were detectable, then no one would be using it because they would all be banned'. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and it doesn't prove shit.

To detect Nexus, it requires the 'spoof data detection' "test" setup for the particular script in order to correctly acknowledge that it is reading client code, rather then on-screen information. Jagex cannot setup a test for every single script that the community makes, so it is technically true in a sense, that Nexus is undetectable, as long as Jagex hasn't setup the test for that particular script.

As for RSBot, same rules apply, it would obviously take time to reverse engineer the information being sent from the user's client to verify if it's been manipulated by an injected software. They would no way be able to catch the hundreds of thousands of people that use BCEL. Therefore, under, I say it's rumored they have tests for anyone that is over or close to level 90 in a skill. Lowering the numbers drastically, however, still effectively catching the "more serious" botters.

Now, none of this I can prove evidently, but unfortunately, as an argument, it stands better than yours. So, whoever is reading I'd best be safe by trusting the one with logical "proof". Rather then unevaluated "statistical none sense".

Shout out to Auxilium, i kanz0r b srs if i want 2 b


Again, Nexus doesn't use spoof data, nor do any other reflection bots. Go read up on how reflection actually works before trying to argue with me. Ignorance is not a winning argument.

In regards to your "reverse engineer" point, I get the feeling you're arguing on the basis that you've overheard all these stories, but you don't actually have any understanding of the systems themselves.

BCEL loads everything it needs when the client is loaded. After that it uses a process similar to reflection in order to grab it's fields. Now you're arguing on the basis that it's possible to reverse engineer an encapsulating program from the encapsulated program during run time. In order for Runescape to do that, they'd have to use reflection funnily enough. Java gives you the ability to hide any threads you define from any external access. That means, that you can very easily keep your bot hidden from any reflection methods hidden within the client. If it were not possible to do this, then all bots, including RID, would be insta-ban.

My best advise would be to read more into how reflection, BCEL and Java in general work both through the assembler and in "code" terms. You'd find that your views on this matter would change in polarity quite quickly.

Now I'm not arguing you because I think RiD products are shit, I don't. I think he's had an amazing stab at a color bot. I'm arguing with you because you've been told a bunch of wrong shit. Perhaps RiD is trying to keep customers from going to other sites, I don't know nor do I care, I don't mean to sound as if I'm advertising for the other sites, I'm genuinely not. The reason Nexus, Rsbots, kBot scripts get people banned, is not because they're inherently detectable, but because most of them are designed by amateur scripters. RiD on the other hand, is not an amateur scripter, he's dedicated much of his time to perfecting a color bot, certainly a very difficult task, although it does limit what his bots can do.

Win
05-03-2010, 08:54 PM
I honestly took the word from RiD, are you doubting him? Would it be that hard for even RiD himself to understand something as simple as reflection? And if you are, please elaborate how it infact doesn't read any client data. As far as I know, that's what reflecting means, "reflecting" the data received from the server.

Exarctus
05-03-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah, pretty much everyone around here does. If someone you trust tells you something, you don't question it.

RiD probably told you that to set his products and the competition apart. RiD has a niche and I'm not trying to ruin that. I respect what RiD's accomplished so don't take what I say as if I'm trying to flame him or lower peoples confidence in him or w/e, he is genuinely a very good programmer and his products will always be held in high standing because of it. His bots are very well written and I really like many of his features, so your buying into a lot of quality on this site.

To my knowledge, RiD has only ever designed the color bot. He has not designed a reflection or BCEL bot, nor looked into how our systems actually work. He may be an amazing programmer, but I don't think he has much experience in this particular field.

First of, there are Security Managers which let you prevent any external program (i.e Runescape) from reflecting upon your program. This prevents any reflection method, or indeed any method relating to the bot itself being "seen" by runescape. If this were not possible to do, it's very, very simple to get a stack of all the current programs running through the JVM. Forunately Java itself prevents Jagex determining any external loader in terms of it's activity. RiD uses these protocols to prevent his bot being seen from the prying eyes of Jagex.

A reflection bot does not inject any data into the client. It simply loads it and reads it. Thus the only ways it would be possible to determine if a reflection bot is loading runescape, is either determining if it's being "read" or if it's being "loaded".

It is not possible to determine if it's being "read" as I stated above. And therefore the only remaining thing is the loader.

The loader is a very important part of a bot in terms of "detectability" and I will do my best and explain to you the matters involved therein. In order for you to play runescape normally, the client must be loaded, and therefore, the web browser loads the client. Much of the loader is gained by looking at how Runescape uses the web client to load itself. Runescape also uses a cache file stored on your HD for various parts of the loading process.

Now if you mimic exactly what the web browser uses to load the client, and also what the client itself has in its loading method, your loader won't be detectable. The only way to catch the loader, is to update runescape, change the way it loads, and flag any accounts that load if differntly, but everytime runescape updates, we also check the loader to make sure its working properly everytime.

Reflection has the "potential" to be detectable, but using what I've told you here, so does RiD. The difference here is that there are more things to consider when using Reflection than there are in RiD. The upside of reflection over a colour bot is the shear power you can achieve. Reflection bots make coding much, much easier than color bots do.

As I've explained, on the contrary to what you've been told previously, reflection isn't inherently detectable. It's very easy to keep a loader up to date. If I can do it, the guys that run the bot systems can do it too.

Win
05-03-2010, 10:29 PM
You say they can't know if you are reading the client's data because of these security managers and the ability to hide methods. But that doesn't mean they can't send "fake" data, then see the reaction of the program. Since these "fake" data can't be seen by the eye and only by the reflection program reading the client's data, they can therefore verify that you're using an external program to "play" RuneScape.

Just because they can't actually "see", they can verify it by a "blind test".

On the BCEL matter, it may be true that people are being banned due to amateur scripters. I can't really evaluate it as it's true that everything I learned about the matter were from other people, just like you.

Exarctus
05-03-2010, 10:59 PM
I'm a sun certified java programmer. I am reasonably well educated to discuss these matters so don't assume I'm just gargling this stuff from what I've been told.

You are quite correct they do send fake data. The fake data is to attempt to force scripts to mess up. Ofcourse loading the data is undetectable as discussed before, an example of the data would be the client loading an object appearing to be something else, but has no clickable area or top text. In order for the fake data to be loaded by a reflection bot, it must appear to be something it's not, i.e an NPC, or a door. The reflection bot then loads the fake data, and, in the example that it's an NPC, may start trying to click the NPC thinking it's a target (if the script has defined that particular NPC type as a target). However, because it's disguised as a certain Object type, it draws the same object definitions and and it's very easy to detect whether or not it's fake by looking at it's object definitions in comparison to a "real" version's. "Fake" objects did initially give us some small problems when they first entered the game, after a few days most botting sites updated to accomodate them and ignore them. We have methods available in the platform which can ignore these fake objects from being chosen, and if there are any remaining "fake" objects, these can be ignored from the script themselves.

As I stated some fake objects do get through our tolerence, but these are really easily ignored within the script. For example I've written a bot which does the minigame Impetuous Impulses. In this minigame I noticed that there were "fake" npc's floating around, they had the same name as the normal imps, same level and generally same attributes except for one attribute which I used to ignore them completely.

Runescape can always release new fake objects, but there is always something to use to ignore them out of any searches. If there weren't any differences, the fake objects wouldn't actually be fake and would indeed be real. The fact that they are a special type of an object, gives them away from the objects themselves and thus makes them easily detectable to reflection/BCEL bots.

Win
05-03-2010, 11:25 PM
I see, I should probably rephrase that point then. In the end, it all has to do with the experience of the scripter and how well the script was coded, that should fit all contexts.

Thanks for all the information, I try to be as unbiased as possible, but I still have to conform to the information I was given. Of course, this "guide" is more generally for RiD users anyway.

Edit: removed areas linking specific bots/botting techniques to have specific flaws, also revamped thread. :)

Exarctus
05-04-2010, 12:31 AM
Thanks a lot Win. I appreciate it.

I just find it really immature that botting sites often berate eachother without a great deal of fact basis >.<

Win
05-04-2010, 01:01 AM
Well, as you probably could tell, it was only logical with the misinformation. :p

Lilcmp1
05-04-2010, 01:02 AM
Welp I feel like I learned something from you two. It is very fascinating information. I'm glad you shared Exarctus.

Auxilium
05-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Shout out to Auxilium, i kanz0r b srs if i want 2 b ;)

Epic.


But, Exarctus, what I think IS odd is that no one actually comes up with the fact that people
(like me) get banned from the game if they use bots which use another technique then RiD (Like Kminer, which is
based upon Nexus; correct me if I am wrong). I do not want to argue with you, and I do not want to sound like
an geek, since I have little to no experience in programming.

Exarctus
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Epic.


But, Exarctus, what I think IS odd is that no one actually comes up with the fact that people
(like me) get banned from the game if they use bots which use another technique then RiD (Like Kminer, which is
based upon Nexus; correct me if I am wrong). I do not want to argue with you, and I do not want to sound like
an geek, since I have little to no experience in programming.

You can get banned with RiD's products too.

Getting banned from botting depends mostly on the following factors. It's all a matter of how much you use the bot, what you use it for, how well the particular bot is designed and a bit of luck. RiD's is well designed, more so than KMiner, so you're much less likely to be banned with the miner on this site than you would on the others.

RiD
05-05-2010, 12:32 AM
Exarctus - I think this is the first time I've seen a reflection bot programmer elaborate on, "reflection isn't detectable... we are higher up in the stack." I respect that, and it's interesting to hear the ways you counteract Jagex's methods of detecting reflection (which do exist, but as you rightly say will never be perfect). But my view is... RS is updating all the time, and you can't rely on a scripter, or botmaker, to stay 100% ahead of Jagex, 100% of the time with reflection... it is Jagex's code afterall.

One thing I've learned botting (which if you think about it, is pretty obvious) is, there is no 'scale' of detectability. There is only a scale as to how likely you will be caught when you use a detectable bot, which would depend on how long you use it for, luck, etc. But detectability itself is like a lightswitch, a bot either IS or IS NOT detected by the detection system.

Julian
05-05-2010, 01:32 AM
honestly, i don't think there is a 'detection system' - code you can call i guess.
i think they either see if there is constant 'repeats' of movement/clicks in the same box, such as move to box 117 (ex), and excessive playing ime

Win
05-05-2010, 01:53 AM
honestly, i don't think there is a 'detection system' - code you can call i guess.
i think they either see if there is constant 'repeats' of movement/clicks in the same box, such as move to box 117 (ex), and excessive playing ime

any process they use to detect a botter is a "system", lol so that would be a system... plus, thats equivalent to detectable algorithm, if the mouse movement repeats, etc.

ive positive ive covered everything

Exarctus
05-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Exarctus - I think this is the first time I've seen a reflection bot programmer elaborate on, "reflection isn't detectable... we are higher up in the stack." I respect that, and it's interesting to hear the ways you counteract Jagex's methods of detecting reflection (which do exist, but as you rightly say will never be perfect). But my view is... RS is updating all the time, and you can't rely on a scripter, or botmaker, to stay 100% ahead of Jagex, 100% of the time with reflection... it is Jagex's code afterall.

One thing I've learned botting (which if you think about it, is pretty obvious) is, there is no 'scale' of detectability. There is only a scale as to how likely you will be caught when you use a detectable bot, which would depend on how long you use it for, luck, etc. But detectability itself is like a lightswitch, a bot either IS or IS NOT detected by the detection system.

Indeed. Everytime Runescape updates, our bot's break.

Refllection works on the basis that a field within a particular class will always have the same name, eg wf.x or whatever. When an update occurs, Jagex re-obfuscate their code so a field we used in a previous version seldom has the same name in the new version. Hell I don't think theres ever been an update where everything hasn't changed :p Might have happened in the days of RSC, but not now.

Obviously, this is an issue for reflection, because our reflection will (and do) break every update.

The way most reflection bots get around this, is they use whats called an "updater", which is essentially a one-shot BCEL/ASM (and sometimes also reflection, but much trickier to do) "hook maker" which grabs all the fields. This isn't usually ran from the bot, it's a standalone application. Updaters are actually very complicated, and I can only make a very simple one myself. As you know RiD, before a java program hits the assembler, it goes through the Java Virtual Machine where it's converted from the .class code into a language the computer can more easily understand. This conversion leaves markers for certain types of field / class and allows for "patterns" to be discerned. These patterns are regardless of version number, and only depend on how that particular field/class within the game actually get used in terms of how they're processed on the stack. This is generally true, but really depends on what jagex update - if they make changes to a particular class hierachy, for example, the bits which handle walking, then generally everything to do with walking and the patterns associated with them will change upon re-obfuscation. So unless runescape does a major update to something, these patterns will remain the same or only changed very slightly. BCEL updaters do break, but often the fixes to the updater are minor. BCEL updaters really do speed up the task of updating a bot to a new version. I know that Kosaki updates his bot within 5 minutes of a runescape update. Thats the scale at how useful updaters are to the bot programmer.

Nexus doesn't actually use a BCEL updater. Eric (the developer of NeXus for everyone else) is very, very intuitive in his knowledge about how runescape actually functions as an application. Most of his updates are done by hand, opening up a reflection explorer and looking for patterns for particular field. Reflection explorers are messy as hell and so it really is impressive how he does it. This is probably why he says "We're higher up the stack", we don't actually delve into the depths of stack-tracing in order to update our bot, Eric just does it...well...because he can >.<

It's true it's difficult to keep a bot running in time with Jagex. Usually most updates we patch within an hour or two of Eric knowing that the bot needs an update, but in very large updates where practically everything breaks, it takes Eric a few days to fix everything.

Whereas BCEL/ASM beat the client in submission, Reflection strokes it to sleep, and then rapes it. I really do not think it's possible to catch a reflection bot. The system itself only brushes the surface of the stack, which makes it really difficult, nigh impossible for the client to actually detect anything. Reflection doesn't modify nor inject data, it just looks at it. Jagex's detection system does not focus on the "loading" system we use, I think they've realized that trying to catch any bot, not just reflection, by seeing if they read/inject data is pretty much a dead end. They focus on in game shit in order to try and catch us out but their attempts thus far haven't been particularly challenging. They've got a real problem on their hands, they need to find a way to be able to catch us, without changing the game play experience of the legit player (bearing in mindthat a legit player must load the detection system as well, so theirs a memory issue involved). If I were in their shoes, the only thing I could think of capable of doing that is sending more and more types of fake data. They've started to do this already, but this in itself is a problem.

Jagex isn't a high memory/CPU application and it cannot afford to dish out too much information to it's users. I see their attempts to minimize loading times all over the place. For example most physical objects (walls, doors etc) load within a 60 tile range, whereas NPC's load within a 20 tile range. This is simply due to the amount of memory each NPC takes up comparatively to an object - NPC's have many more object definitions and are inherently much more complex, so they cannot load as many at once. In certain areas these load distances are reduced further, for example in Living Rock Caverns, due to the number of players that are running around, they've had to reduce the NPC/Player/Interactive Object loading range to like 10 tiles. Really really poor performance issues if you're having to reduce the "visibility" of your game (to players) to only a 10 tile distance, really does say quite a lot at how much they're struggling with data management. So bringing this back to my original point, they have to develop a system which can catch us out but not affect the legit player. This is severely constrained by memory usage and I get the impression that they're squeezing their system for all it's worth. The outlook for a bot detection system which relies on fake data really is quite oblique.

I remember a few months ago they posted "We've made a detection system that can catch ALL bots" in their news bulletins. That was actually the introduction of the fake data and our particular bot handled that within a few days. They did manage to squeeze a few bans out, but I think we only recorded about 17 of the 1000 or so people using the bot at the time.

Auxilium
05-05-2010, 04:19 PM
+1 for me for reading this entire post.
-1 for the one who had actually time to write all this down.

---

It's true it's difficult to keep a bot running in time with Jagex. Usually most updates we patch within an hour or two of Eric knowing that the bot needs an update, but in very large updates where practically everything breaks, it takes Eric a few days to fix everything.

That is what I noticed with every single time I used to bot with RSbots, every time there
was an update (like the HP one as example) the whole botting-community was on its ass for hours if not day's.
With common sense, that would already be an huge flaw, since if I where Jagex - I could easily would be able to determine which people are offline at that moment
(with some sort of an list?) and exactly time when the bot is up again; then it is just an matter of double checking the accounts for repetitive behavior (same clicks on the same spot, excessive play-time etc.)
And viola.

Exarctus
05-05-2010, 06:26 PM
But how do you explain then why the user forum of RSbots is filled with people who make topics (goal topics as example) stating that their
account have been banned? The userbase? That would be a bullshit statement. The only way you can really prove yourself is to have one RiD bot and one RSbot botting
at the same time, and then post results. (like RiD PowerMiner and Kminer (this one got me banned in.. 2-3 weeks of normally botting))

I'm not arguing that bots don't get you banned. I'm arguing that the platform isn't detectable.

RiD bots are better written than NeXus bots, so they're less likely to get you banned.

Auxilium
05-05-2010, 06:43 PM
I'm not arguing that bots don't get you banned. I'm arguing that the platform isn't detectable.

RiD bots are better written than NeXus bots, so they're less likely to get you banned.

Look. You already had stated in an previous post that the possibility's of clicking/random sleep times etc. made the NeXus bot
also an very safe bot to bot with. Then you also state now that RiD bots are better written then Nexus bots, so instead of an thousand possibilities
of way's to bot, RiD has millions if not billions way to bot; thanks to the customized programming function which each of RiD's bot receive. (which is also diffrent
from Nexus, which uses one code for thousand of botters).

And about the above, if Jagex would download an bot from Rsbots, they would receive the same code as the whole community would use.
Here, with RiD on the other hand Jagex would receive an customized bot (like everyone else) and it would be impossible for them to learn from the code.

Exarctus
05-05-2010, 06:48 PM
Look. You already had stated in an previous post that the possibility's of clicking/random sleep times etc. made the NeXus bot
also an very safe bot to bot with. Then you also state now that RiD bots are better written then Nexus bots, so instead of an thousand possibilities
of way's to bot, RiD has millions if not billions way to bot; thanks to the customized programming function which each of RiD's bot receive. (which is also diffrent
from Nexus, which uses one code for thousand of botters).

And about the above, if Jagex would download an bot from Rsbots, they would receive the same code as the whole community would use.
Here, with RiD on the other hand Jagex would receive an customized bot (like everyone else) and it would be impossible for them to learn from the code.

Thats great, but I'm not trying to or entering an argument about which bot is better. so if you're going to get competitive and post things unrelated to the actual topic point I request that you don't bother. It spoils the threads mood.

meanub
05-07-2010, 01:35 AM
If the username matches the actual programmer, Auxilium happens to be argueing with one of the best reflection bot scripters on the net.

Jon Snow
05-07-2010, 12:42 PM
Bots are detected because they do not reflect humans well enough:

Life style
Concentration
Usage
Conversation
Etc.

The more human a bot appears the better. If jagex cannot detect that it is a bot, i.e by deducing its code, sending spoof data ...etc, then it can only detect it by its lack of human characteristics. So if reflection isnt detectable, and i will trust Exarctus that it is not, then people get banned because they either force the bot to appear bot like, or due to the poor scripting of the program.

The best Rid bots should be the same as the best "other" bots. I would love for exarctus to produce a script that would get Rid users to 99 without been banned, as stone wall proof that they are both not detectable ( with good scripts ), then the stupid arguments would be settled for sure.

We should be really working together to beat jagex, not fighting a "civil war"

Benge
05-07-2010, 04:12 PM
So Exarctus, one of the ways that JaGeX catches you is when Runescape updates?? Because like all the times i've been banned i got banned just after a Update.... :o

Edward
05-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Bots are detected because they do not reflect humans well enough:

Life style
Concentration
Usage
Conversation
Etc.

The more human a bot appears the better. If jagex cannot detect that it is a bot, i.e by deducing its code, sending spoof data ...etc, then it can only detect it by its lack of human characteristics. So if reflection isnt detectable, and i will trust Exarctus that it is not, then people get banned because they either force the bot to appear bot like, or due to the poor scripting of the program.

The best Rid bots should be the same as the best "other" bots. I would love for exarctus to produce a script that would get Rid users to 99 without been banned, as stone wall proof that they are both not detectable ( with good scripts ), then the stupid arguments would be settled for sure.

We should be really working together to beat jagex, not fighting a "civil war"

Yes tommo, it is the scripts fault I believe, I mean the bot gives you the tools, it is the programmer that either makes or breaks the script. If he spends years and years, writes a sophisticated algorithm and creates a mouse movement pool for human like mouse movements, and spends time creating unique styles etc etc then I am sure that those script users would not be banned either.

Auxilium
05-07-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm sorry Exarctus, I thought we where discussing the scripts itself, not the platform - sorry if I sounded a bit harsh.
I did not try to argue Edward, I was discussing. However, it seems this conversation comes to an level which I have no knowledge off.
So, I will retreat from this discussion and I let you to decide.

Win
05-07-2010, 06:17 PM
There's really nothing to decide, lol.

Adam
05-07-2010, 11:58 PM
A reflection bot does not inject any data into the client. It simply loads it and reads it. Thus the only ways it would be possible to determine if a reflection bot is loading runescape, is either determining if it's being "read" or if it's being "loaded".

I'd just like to state that I feel like my original point was mute. It is detectable. Let me describe the situation in simpler terms.
You load up a flax spinner script.
It reads the id's of whats on screen, sees flax and withdraws it.
It reads the id's of whats in your inventory and sees the flax and spins it.
Jagex runs an automated test against you, the id of flax changes.
Your bot now goes to withdraw flax and does not find it or tries to spin it and can't find it.
Your bot errors out in a way common for a program reading id's to error out after an id change.
They have now identified you as a bot.

The reason why this makes any reflection bot detectable is because a player does not know what the id is, they only see the image of flax which never changes. When it suddenly errors out cause the id changes you've been flagged and your screwed.

Now with proper error trapping for the script you can make one easily undetectable, because you'll never error out and they'll be unable to prove you were actually running a bot. Thing is, I've used nexus scripts and I wouldn't trust their error trapping 90% of the time. I couldn't even find a flax spinner that could open the door from inside the room, I had to add that to one myself.

FYI: I was a very intense script writer for reflection style bots in other games. No bans using any of my scripts I sold. Lost my main account using a simple potion drinker that wasn't randomized and didn't recheck id's. All my scripts were written in Delphi and we're meant to be run 27/4, automatically took breaks, re-opened bags, arranged items, etc. Unless you manage to cover every possible error for every possible user your going to end up with a lot of bans with any reflection platforms.

Win
05-08-2010, 12:45 AM
ya but darksoul, he explained that they can detect for fake packets and stuff, they cant really change the id on the spot, but they can add fake, invisible objects and items, and stuff like that, with different attributes, but an experienced scripter knows to look for that and have the bot ignore it

thats why it still depends on whoever programs the bot... once again, the platform itself isnt detectable

Edward
05-08-2010, 01:52 AM
Ya its the scripts that are detectable because you can virtually and theoretically add failsafes for everything Jagex throws at you.

Also Auxillium I should have said debating, sorry just used to saying argue.

Benge
05-08-2010, 04:12 PM
Could i ask Exarctus, are you the one on Rstrainers? And are Rstrainers any good bots? scripted good with all the stuff you've been talking about??

QuestionEverything
05-08-2010, 06:02 PM
I'm a sun certified java programmer. I am reasonably well educated to discuss these matters so don't assume I'm just gargling this stuff from what I've been told.


Get off your highhorse nick. I wrote that test when I was 17, it set me back ~$125 and was one of the easiest test's i've taken (Cisco, etc.).. I wouldn't call anyone who just has that certification "reasonably well educated"..

You have done nothing to discredit what the OP is saying besides trying to push your own product.

Exarctus
05-09-2010, 01:39 AM
Just so everyone else knows why QuestionEverything is suddenly flaming me, he was perm banned on the forum that I'm a mod on for scamming, so he has some personal issues blocking his judgment in regards to NeXus in general.

QuestionEverything - go read what I've actually said before posting. That way you won't appear to be a dick.

I am not "pushing my own products". I have NOT ONCE mentioned any of the bots which I am selling. Pushing NeXus as a platform doesn't really benefit me in any way, I'm simply trying to clear up the misguided idea's that a few people have on this forum.

Benge - I am one of the authors there yes. The "quality" of the bots depend on the author thats written them really. The bots there are of higher quality than you'd find on any other reflection/BCEL site though. My best advice would be to look in the support forums and see what people have said about the bots that interests you.

Benge
05-09-2010, 10:58 AM
Thanks! I have the Fighter, Runecrafting, Mining, Pyrmid Plunder, Farmining Minigame and just bought the cooking one after reading your posts about the bots aint easy to get banned :)

Auxilium
05-09-2010, 06:16 PM
Just so everyone else knows why QuestionEverything is suddenly flaming me, he was perm banned on the forum that I'm a mod on for scamming, so he has some personal issues blocking his judgment in regards to NeXus in general.

QuestionEverything - go read what I've actually said before posting. That way you won't appear to be a dick.

I am not "pushing my own products". I have NOT ONCE mentioned any of the bots which I am selling. Pushing NeXus as a platform doesn't really benefit me in any way, I'm simply trying to clear up the misguided idea's that a few people have on this forum.

Benge - I am one of the authors there yes. The "quality" of the bots depend on the author thats written them really. The bots there are of higher quality than you'd find on any other reflection/BCEL site though. My best advice would be to look in the support forums and see what people have said about the bots that interests you.


Thanks! I have the Fighter, Runecrafting, Mining, Pyrmid Plunder, Farmining Minigame and just bought the cooking one after reading your posts about the bots aint easy to get banned :)

Well, you certainly have "promoted" your wares here. Tempting members here in buying things from your own website (or in this case - source) is called advertising.

RiD
05-09-2010, 06:19 PM
Mark is updating Nexus by intuition, without explicitly understanding everything in the code.
For example, on June 11th 2009 when you say Jagex first introduced new 'fake objects', on rsca alone (the main Nexus website), there were 20 threads about bans, 5+ people each thread banned, some with several accounts banned, that's over 100 bans. And between all the Nexus communities there must have been several hundred bans that day. That's when Jagex were even dumb enough to tell you in advance they were adding new detection systems.

Reflection as a method for reading in-game data is detectable, and although there's a way around every reflection detection system, things can easily slip through un-noticed, and there's always a new system round the corner if Jagex can be bothered to develop it. Three bans today on rsbots.net. You can claim it's only people who suicide that get banned, but you don't store records on each person, and as soon as you start guessing, you lose all credibility and it becomes impossible to get to the real issues. I'd be surprised if Jagex don't already have a system to detect the mouse movements used by Nexus right now, they are poor.
I'm not saying Nexus = instant ban, and I'm not saying people shouldn't use it, but I would never use it on my $1000+ USD RS account... And if you get reported, you have a high chance of ban... because it is detectable. As you say it yourself, anyone using Nexus as it is now, needs a bit of luck.

Exarctus
05-09-2010, 07:29 PM
Mark is updating Nexus by intuition, without explicitly understanding everything in the code.
For example, on June 11th 2009 when you say Jagex first introduced new 'fake objects', on rsca alone (the main Nexus website), there were 20 threads about bans, 5+ people each thread banned, some with several accounts banned, that's over 100 bans. And between all the Nexus communities there must have been several hundred bans that day. That's when Jagex were even dumb enough to tell you in advance they were adding new detection systems.

Reflection as a method for reading in-game data is detectable, and although there's a way around every reflection detection system, things can easily slip through un-noticed, and there's always a new system round the corner if Jagex can be bothered to develop it. Three bans today on rsbots.net. You can claim it's only people who suicide that get banned, but you don't store records on each person, and as soon as you start guessing, you lose all credibility and it becomes impossible to get to the real issues. I'd be surprised if Jagex don't already have a system to detect the mouse movements used by Nexus right now, they are poor.
I'm not saying Nexus = instant ban, and I'm not saying people shouldn't use it, but I would never use it on my $1000+ USD RS account... And if you get reported, you have a high chance of ban... because it is detectable. As you say it yourself, anyone using Nexus as it is now, needs a bit of luck.

Ah, I see you've not bothered to read anything of what I've said in this thread. Blind leading the blind it seems.

You keep telling people on here that reflection is detectable, but you have never once justified why you think that. People just assume you're correct and don't question you.

I'm not going to continue trying to clear up people's misguided idea's. Perhaps you should take some of your time to actually understand how reflection/ BCEL work RiD, it will certainly clear up many of your assumptions that you've made in the past. Because at the moment, you aren't qualified to say whether Reflection/BCEL are detectable, because you just don't understand how they work. Have you ever even looked at a decrypted runescape source and tried to see how they achieve certain things? Or are you going to tell me that even just looking at runescape source is "detectable" and will get my non-existant runescape accounts banned :p

QuestionEverything
05-10-2010, 03:34 AM
You have an insanely good memory that was a long time ago. Although I wasn't banned for scamming, I was banned before your time you just rebanned me after Eric fixed Tom's mistake.. bullshit I didn't feel like fixing.. RSCA's a joke..

Read Benge's post..
You've always been a money hungry whore Nick..

Reflection by nature is detectable in many instances; such as

-----
Client Loads
Script runs and kills ogres for 30 minutes
Jagex spoofs id 3419 as a transparent object (i've witnessed them do this before while using a BCEL bot, my 114 got banned).
Script searches for npc id:3419 -> and clicked transparent object
Transparent object moves to position x,x on click
Script searches for npc id:3419 -> and clicked transparent object
Transparent object moves to position x,x on click
etc..

RID does not use fagex's internal id system, but rather by visually mapping out the screen in a similar manner in which a human would do it. Therefor rendering these types of attacks impossible because they are designed to fool a computer but be invisible to the paint/player.
REFLECTION = DETECTABLE

hiwhatsyourname
05-10-2010, 08:27 AM
nice find lad

Benge
05-10-2010, 09:33 AM
I didn't buy the bot because he adverticed! I bought it because i wanted it i just thought they was more detectable before i read the post....!

Exarctus
05-10-2010, 11:22 AM
QE you don't know me, so don't be presumptuous, that's just being an idiot.


You have an insanely good memory that was a long time ago. Although I wasn't banned for scamming, I was banned before your time you just rebanned me after Eric fixed Tom's mistake.. bullshit I didn't feel like fixing.. RSCA's a joke..

Read Benge's post..
You've always been a money hungry whore Nick..

Reflection by nature is detectable in many instances; such as

-----
Client Loads
Script runs and kills ogres for 30 minutes
Jagex spoofs id 3419 as a transparent object (i've witnessed them do this before while using a BCEL bot, my 114 got banned).
Script searches for npc id:3419 -> and clicked transparent object
Transparent object moves to position x,x on click
Script searches for npc id:3419 -> and clicked transparent object
Transparent object moves to position x,x on click
etc..

RID does not use fagex's internal id system, but rather by visually mapping out the screen in a similar manner in which a human would do it. Therefor rendering these types of attacks impossible because they are designed to fool a computer but be invisible to the paint/player.
REFLECTION = DETECTABLE

I have to repeat this it seems. But we've already discussed all of these points. Try reading the thread before posting something misinformed.

Win
05-10-2010, 07:38 PM
eww people are not listening on either sides rofl, rid said to u exartcus, that he understands u can bypass the detection system like the spoof data, but can be easy to miss and therefore it becomes temporarily detectable... as well as jagex adding new methods without you guys knowing

and yeah, QE wasnt listening either i guess about the spoof data thing, packet attributes ppl


Well, you certainly have "promoted" your wares here. Tempting members here in buying things from your own website (or in this case - source) is called advertising.

dats bs, he never even gave a website, he just stated facts about the platform, stop being such a whiner plz, let anyone make their own decision

Pakman
05-10-2010, 08:11 PM
this post it legit. i would agree with it. kinda rediculous that people think they can bot 24/7 and get away with it.

Exarctus
05-11-2010, 11:11 PM
eww people are not listening on either sides rofl, rid said to u exartcus, that he understands u can bypass the detection system like the spoof data, but can be easy to miss and therefore it becomes temporarily detectable... as well as jagex adding new methods without you guys knowing

and yeah, QE wasnt listening either i guess about the spoof data thing, packet attributes ppl



dats bs, he never even gave a website, he just stated facts about the platform, stop being such a whiner plz, let anyone make their own decision

Yeh RiD's point is valid, but I'm not sure how far they can go to "throw us off".

I said this in an earlier point, they have limits as to what they can do.

Java isn't well suited for 3D games, there are severe memory issues which must be accounted for when designing any physically intensive program with Java. The thing is, that in order to send stuff like this through their client, they'd have to send it through to the normal user as well. One thing I've noticed in my time as a reflection programmer is Jagex's attempts are lowering memory usage simply because they don't have much to play with.

I'll quote my previous post for people to read.


Indeed. Everytime Runescape updates, our bot's break.

Refllection works on the basis that a field within a particular class will always have the same name, eg wf.x or whatever. When an update occurs, Jagex re-obfuscate their code so a field we used in a previous version seldom has the same name in the new version. Hell I don't think theres ever been an update where everything hasn't changed :p Might have happened in the days of RSC, but not now.

Obviously, this is an issue for reflection, because our reflection will (and do) break every update.

The way most reflection bots get around this, is they use whats called an "updater", which is essentially a one-shot BCEL/ASM (and sometimes also reflection, but much trickier to do) "hook maker" which grabs all the fields. This isn't usually ran from the bot, it's a standalone application. Updaters are actually very complicated, and I can only make a very simple one myself. As you know RiD, before a java program hits the assembler, it goes through the Java Virtual Machine where it's converted from the .class code into a language the computer can more easily understand. This conversion leaves markers for certain types of field / class and allows for "patterns" to be discerned. These patterns are regardless of version number, and only depend on how that particular field/class within the game actually get used in terms of how they're processed on the stack. This is generally true, but really depends on what jagex update - if they make changes to a particular class hierachy, for example, the bits which handle walking, then generally everything to do with walking and the patterns associated with them will change upon re-obfuscation. So unless runescape does a major update to something, these patterns will remain the same or only changed very slightly. BCEL updaters do break, but often the fixes to the updater are minor. BCEL updaters really do speed up the task of updating a bot to a new version. I know that Kosaki updates his bot within 5 minutes of a runescape update. Thats the scale at how useful updaters are to the bot programmer.

Nexus doesn't actually use a BCEL updater. Eric (the developer of NeXus for everyone else) is very, very intuitive in his knowledge about how runescape actually functions as an application. Most of his updates are done by hand, opening up a reflection explorer and looking for patterns for particular field. Reflection explorers are messy as hell and so it really is impressive how he does it. This is probably why he says "We're higher up the stack", we don't actually delve into the depths of stack-tracing in order to update our bot, Eric just does it...well...because he can >.<

It's true it's difficult to keep a bot running in time with Jagex. Usually most updates we patch within an hour or two of Eric knowing that the bot needs an update, but in very large updates where practically everything breaks, it takes Eric a few days to fix everything.

Whereas BCEL/ASM beat the client in submission, Reflection strokes it to sleep, and then rapes it. I really do not think it's possible to catch a reflection bot. The system itself only brushes the surface of the stack, which makes it really difficult, nigh impossible for the client to actually detect anything. Reflection doesn't modify nor inject data, it just looks at it. Jagex's detection system does not focus on the "loading" system we use, I think they've realized that trying to catch any bot, not just reflection, by seeing if they read/inject data is pretty much a dead end. They focus on in game shit in order to try and catch us out but their attempts thus far haven't been particularly challenging. They've got a real problem on their hands, they need to find a way to be able to catch us, without changing the game play experience of the legit player (bearing in mindthat a legit player must load the detection system as well, so theirs a memory issue involved). If I were in their shoes, the only thing I could think of capable of doing that is sending more and more types of fake data. They've started to do this already, but this in itself is a problem.

Jagex isn't a high memory/CPU application and it cannot afford to dish out too much information to it's users. I see their attempts to minimize loading times all over the place. For example most physical objects (walls, doors etc) load within a 60 tile range, whereas NPC's load within a 20 tile range. This is simply due to the amount of memory each NPC takes up comparatively to an object - NPC's have many more object definitions and are inherently much more complex, so they cannot load as many at once. In certain areas these load distances are reduced further, for example in Living Rock Caverns, due to the number of players that are running around, they've had to reduce the NPC/Player/Interactive Object loading range to like 10 tiles. Really really poor performance issues if you're having to reduce the "visibility" of your game (to players) to only a 10 tile distance, really does say quite a lot at how much they're struggling with data management. So bringing this back to my original point, they have to develop a system which can catch us out but not affect the legit player. This is severely constrained by memory usage and I get the impression that they're squeezing their system for all it's worth. The outlook for a bot detection system which relies on fake data really is quite oblique.

I remember a few months ago they posted "We've made a detection system that can catch ALL bots" in their news bulletins. That was actually the introduction of the fake data and our particular bot handled that within a few days. They did manage to squeeze a few bans out, but I think we only recorded about 17 of the 1000 or so people using the bot at the time.

If Jagex had a larger amount of memory to make use of, they could potentially throw us off (and cause a lot of bans) for a long enough time for people to be worried about using NeXus and/or all other reflection bots. There is a limit as to what they can do with their client though, and I've seen their attempts at limiting memory usage so they can pass the "potential" memory to somewhere else quite frequently.

Getting rid of bots is a high priority for them, and they've had almost 4 years now to get around our bots and they haven't. They've tried many many times and it just leads me to think that it's not because they just haven't got around to it, it's more because they are limited in how to catch a reflection bot. If they were to implement system, it would need to be universal across the whole client, not just a small section of it (eg one area, but not another in-game). Some area's are really highly populated and have a massive demand on server side for data. Adding an intensive bot detection system would only increase those demands. They could lets say, only apply it to certain area's, but that would leave holes in really obvious places (e.g world 2 GE and any world-specific activity where there is a high population in a small area).

What we're talking about here is a VERY complicated system. A system complicated enough to ensure that we cannot get around it. If they were capable of designing such a system, they would be capable of applying a similar system to catch a color bot out by people trying to use it and it doing retarded things (which is exactly how the "fake object" data was intended to catch us out). The argument could swing both against NeXus and against RiD. It's not good to assume the unknown though, which is why berating a particular bots detectability isn't a good idea when there aren't many facts holding it all together. Hence why I first started this debate a week or so ago :p

Jon Snow
05-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Now that they are using direct x to help render graphics will that free up more memory ?

Exarctus
05-13-2010, 11:22 PM
Now that they are using direct x to help render graphics will that free up more memory ?

No idea.

I don't know a great deal about Java3D or it's rendering API.

Win
05-14-2010, 05:23 AM
they most likely wont be doing the update just to relieve more memory for macro detection, they need it for the graphical improvements

Jon Snow
05-14-2010, 11:59 AM
I never specified that they would be doing it to stop macroers, could however be a bi-product.

Exarctus
05-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Indeed. I didn't actually read the update before posting.

They're applying it to HD only. so it's just to increase their rendering capability in that mode only.

Win
05-15-2010, 08:23 AM
yea i guess

Ethan
05-18-2010, 02:55 PM
so I haven't read this tread in a while and now Im loling because this is kinda funny.

Freely Drawn
05-22-2010, 07:35 PM
i'm 0/3 so i guess i'm pretty safe

RiD
05-23-2010, 03:07 AM
What we're talking about here is a VERY complicated system. A system complicated enough to ensure that we cannot get around it.
To me, it looked like people were discussing can Jagex detect reflection? and you shifted it to -> can Jagex detect reflection without leaving a way around those systems? I don't think either is an unknown quantity. The answer to the second, would be no, the first, yes - as you demonstrate here:

I remember a few months ago they posted "We've made a detection system that can catch ALL bots" in their news bulletins. That was actually the introduction of the fake data... They did manage to squeeze a few bans out
and here:

As I stated some fake objects do get through our tolerence



If they were capable of designing such a system, they would be capable of applying a similar system to catch a color bot out by people trying to use it and it doing retarded things (which is exactly how the "fake object" data was intended to catch us out). The argument could swing both against NeXus and against RiD.

By deduction, we can conclude Jagex (clearly) don't ban accounts according to a concept of 'how confused' they are when it comes to sending 'fake objects' - not only would it be 1000 times harder to measure 'confusion' than detect interactions with a fake object, it would be inferior evidence of botting... acting retarded (whatever that entails) doesn't mean someone is a bot, but interacting with a fake object (only a bot could see) is.
On this basis, doing the same thing to a bot operating on vision is impossible. Sure you can detect when a RS account is interacting with misleading things drawn on-screen, but that isn't proof of a bot.

But lets ignore that flaw, and assume Jagex would consider drawing misleading graphical cues on-screen for a new detection system that picks up how 'confused' an account is. Your suggestion would still be false, it's clearly (far) more difficult, and costly, to "confuse" color bots.


Drawing misleading visual cues, harms gameplay and graphics - sending fake data has barely any effect on gameplay and graphics.
You can send fake objects of every kind to a reflection bot, by inheriting a few lines of code - doing the same to a bot operating on vision requires significant research + development, multiplied by the number of objects; we're talking exponentially more difficult. There are infinite ways to extract information from graphics, so it's very hard to understand how a color bot's 'vision' works and confuse it. With RiD it's not just colors, it's about shape, size, movement, etc. Furthermore, every single object looks different, and is read using a different procedure. Confusing RiD would require a specific screen-reading method to be reverse engineered and understood first, and then some weird stuff to be developed (such as large moving objects being randomly drawn) - whereas sending fake data to a reflection bot, requires no great research, and is a one-size-fits-all solution.
It would have a short lifespan, because graphical interference would not go un-noticed - fake objects are disguised completely from regular players, and are easier to hide from botmakers/scripters.
It would be a PR disaster. Because you couldn't hide misleading graphical cues from players, Jagex would have to come out and explain why they are there, and that still wouldn't stop the flood of bug reports they'd get.
There's a good reason Jagex have never used this as a detection process. Whereas detection systems aimed at bots which take cues from data are in operation now.



Ah, I see you've not bothered to read anything of what I've said in this thread. Blind leading the blind it seems.

You keep telling people on here that reflection is detectable, but you have never once justified why you think that.Actually, I did sum it up by saying, you're messing with their code, and they can change anything. Even just changing the data-structure of generic in-game objects would leave you having to identify new-look fake objects leaving the potential for a mistake, they could modify the game-engine to allow for interchangable fields (eg, temporarily switch the x and y grid coordinates around - which would leave you having to reflect elsewhere to get the coordinates of an object - the kind of thing you probably wouldn't notice). And in the most extreme scenario, they could delve into the graphics rendering pipeline, with a sneaky hidden surface removal algorithm, which would make fake and real objects identical - the only difference being hidden within instructions passed to the rendering algorithm at run-time - I'm not saying I believe Jagex will do that, because the cost would be too high imo. There are plenty of cheap ways, it comes down to creativity really.

But even you say reflection is detectable, by bringing up recent detection systems that detected and banned many RS accounts in a single day "a few months ago" (quoted above, also proving I did bother to read what you said). :rolleyes:

Exarctus
05-26-2010, 11:00 AM
It wasn't actually possible to determine which bans we received via "fake data" and which received from our normal quota of bans from failing randoms/crappy scripts etc. We noted between 15-20 bans in that day, 18 springs to mind but I'm not sure where from. Over that period the average number of people using our bots at any one time ranged between 1k and 3k users, so it wasn't really that much.

I'm assuming they did ban accounts, but I really don't know. We do get a few bans each day (considering that we have thousands of players on our system) but I couldn't give you an answer in regards to how many, if any they did ban due to the introduction of fake data. our "average bans" is relatively low and we didn't really seem to be affected much, if at all.

Updaters work by looking at the stack, so it's how the stack interprets the code, not how the java is written. You could have a load of waffle within your code making it very difficult to see what was going on, but the stack would make it very clear.

Creativity does play a role, but I think you're just assuming they can do wild things without us being able to notice, which isn't true. As stated, the stack gives a clear and concise breakdown of what code is doing. Secondly taking the example of switching the x/y points around, they couldn't do that easily. The x/y points mean something, and are used all over the place so it wouldn't actually be feasible for them to change them instantaneously without having some sort of conversion/modification code to turn the data back into it's real form for use throughout the client. We'd be able to see that.

As you said, there is a loop around everything. Even the hidden surface isn't feasible - we have hooks that already take the exact Model of the Entity, and it can be extended to take a 3d short representation of the model itself - Pretty cool to be able to grab the skins from models :P

They hyp'ed up the introduction to their all powerful detection system massively, they were going on and on about it for a few months before the implementation. I was actually pretty disappointed when I saw what it was :p

The main issue for them is, the amount of work they put in is exponentially greater than the amount of work we need to put in to compensate for what they've done. They might work months on a detection algorithm (fake data, removal of skins, object identicality) but all it takes from us is a few days of intense reading/understanding of the client to come up with a fix. In future if something that big ever happened, we'd ground the bot completely until it was fixed. The only reason we get bans due to "detectability" is because we're not careful (when I say we, I actually mean Eric :P), eg we released a version which doesn't implement the hooks correctly, which causes suspicious behavior.

RiD
05-26-2010, 06:07 PM
It wasn't actually possible to determine which bans we received via "fake data" and which received from our normal quota of bans from failing randoms/crappy scripts etc. We noted between 15-20 bans in that day, 18 springs to mind but I'm not sure where from. Over that period the average number of people using our bots at any one time ranged between 1k and 3k users, so it wasn't really that much.
I remember 19 threads of ban reports at rscheata that day, 3-5 people banned each thread, some with more than one account banned. All Nexus reselling sites had numerous ban reports that day too. That would make the real figure much higher, over 100+.


Even the hidden surface isn't feasible - we have hooks that already take the exact Model of the Entity, and it can be extended to take a 3d short representation of the model itself - Pretty cool to be able to grab the skins from models :P
No, that's not what I mean. A hidden-surface removal algorithm is part of the graphics rendering process in all 3D games. The client has graphical information for every object within a certain zone of your player, (like you mention: models, skins, etc) - however, most of those surfaces will not be drawn on screen any given frame - because for example, there's a wall blocking it from view, the back of a wall is not drawn when the camera is facing the front, etc. A hidden-surface removal algorithm is the process that takes all surfaces and determines (based on camera angle, distance and positions of other surfaces in the scene) - which surfaces will be drawn and which aren't. A wall-hack is a modified hidden-surface removal algorithm that draws things on screen that aren't meant to be there - and I was referring to the opposite, an algorithm modified to NOT draw things, that should be there (According to the code).

Grabbing models and skins wouldn't help you to detect this kind of fake object, they'd be identical.

Win
05-26-2010, 08:49 PM
ooo interesting, at the hidden surfaces lol

Exarctus
05-27-2010, 03:41 AM
I remember 19 threads of ban reports at rscheata that day, 3-5 people banned each thread, some with more than one account banned. All Nexus reselling sites had numerous ban reports that day too. That would make the real figure much higher, over 100+.


I don't remember that. Perhaps you're mixing it in with what hapened @ rsbot? I really don't remember many bans being reported. I remember Mark making an announcement for people to reply to the announcement when their account was banned, but not that many people did, at least no-where near a hundred. That would be at least a 30 page announcement including all the normal spam etc and that didn't happen :P I remember Mark saying something similar to "we were hit pretty lightly" and then proceeded to do his usual "NeXus is awesome!11" thing that he does :p



No, that's not what I mean. A hidden-surface removal algorithm is part of the graphics rendering process in all 3D games. The client has graphical information for every object within a certain zone of your player, (like you mention: models, skins, etc) - however, most of those surfaces will not be drawn on screen any given frame - because for example, there's a wall blocking it from view, the back of a wall is not drawn when the camera is facing the front, etc. A hidden-surface removal algorithm is the process that takes all surfaces and determines (based on camera angle, distance and positions of other surfaces in the scene) - which surfaces will be drawn and which aren't. A wall-hack is a modified hidden-surface removal algorithm that draws things on screen that aren't meant to be there - and I was referring to the opposite, an algorithm modified to NOT draw things, that should be there (According to the code).

Grabbing models and skins wouldn't help you to detect this kind of fake object, they'd be identical.

Oh right, yeah I thought you meant something completely different. I actually didn't know how they filtered painting, thanks for pointing it out :p

But same logic applies really, find the method that removes hidden surfaces, see which object type it acts upon, filter particular object. A method like that wouldn't be easy to hide. Our object "types" aren't defined in the client. Many of them don't exist as recognizable "Physical Objects derivatives" or w/e, they are defined by us because they have specific traits/methods that are common to that object. They are then subdivided further into boundary, ground etc due to any additional properties they might have. perhaps you're over simplifying how we find these various objects and how we differentiate between them.

RiD
05-27-2010, 08:50 PM
But same logic applies really, find the method that removes hidden surfaces, see which object type it acts upon, filter particular object. A method like that wouldn't be easy to hide.

There is already a hidden surface removal algorithm in RuneScape - without hidden surface removal you don't have 3D graphics. I brought this up as an example where you'd have to delve into the graphics renderring pipeline to detect fake objects, and hidden surface removal is a very complicated process in it's own right, which acts on a lot of data - every object in the scene. This would be the most hardcore place possible to hide the implementation of fake objects, in my opinion. But as I said, it's just a hypothetical.

NightBlade09
06-02-2010, 07:16 AM
Excessive playtime < Bullshit
Constant random failure < Bullshit
Detectable algorithms. < Bingo!

I've been autoing since before Aryan

Trent!
06-02-2010, 08:07 AM
isnt there a way to have your ip changed? i think that when i was having problems with my wifi router, we had a guy come out and he manually changed our computers ip address... is it possible to do it myself to reduce my chance of getting banned? or even use that when i want to appeal for a ban, by changing my ip, then appealing?

RSPWN
06-02-2010, 03:37 PM
Excessive playtime < Bullshit
Constant random failure < Bullshit
Detectable algorithms. < Bingo!

I've been autoing since before Aryan

But their system have been updated since, pretty sure u can't bot with RiD straight for a week without a ban due to excessive playtime :)

NightBlade09
06-02-2010, 05:13 PM
I've botted 4 days straight with no ban. They do not care about your playtime. I've been stuck in Evil Bob for hours and no ban. They do not care about random failure.

Exarctus
06-02-2010, 07:49 PM
There is already a hidden surface removal algorithm in RuneScape - without hidden surface removal you don't have 3D graphics. I brought this up as an example where you'd have to delve into the graphics renderring pipeline to detect fake objects, and hidden surface removal is a very complicated process in it's own right, which acts on a lot of data - every object in the scene. This would be the most hardcore place possible to hide the implementation of fake objects, in my opinion. But as I said, it's just a hypothetical.

What I meant was, you can't really make these objects "appear" to be real. In order to hide them from the players, you'd need to remove fields like interactable, top text and action etc, obviously otherwise when players hover over these "invisible" objects, they'd see random action text. We can filter an object through this.

There has always seemed to be a simple solution to a complicated problem with reflection. The very nature of writing a reflection/ BCEL bot requires you to understand what is going on in the client with what you're trying to write a hook for, so simply going on the basis of trying to confuse someone through the use of confusing code is on par with how well encryption/obfuscators prevent crackers (not very :P).

Win
06-02-2010, 08:38 PM
I've botted 4 days straight with no ban. They do not care about your playtime. I've been stuck in Evil Bob for hours and no ban. They do not care about random failure.

I never said those things cause you to get banned, it's merely a detection technique. Those two things get you flagged, the mere reason randoms were added was a autoing detection method.

Being stuck isn't necessarily failing anyway, and I don't know about botting for 4 days straight, perhaps only if your account was checked.

You're saying the account with the 4 days straight of autoing is still active with no ban as of now? And when was it when you did that?

Edit: ok heres the way i see it, you may be right with the way i said random failure, so ive made it into a more generic term, simply 'poor programming' which then leads to detectable algorithms but retains other elements like not solving randoms correctly, etc

but im 100% sure playtime has to do with it, just think an even more extreme circumstance, one week straight of playing, or one month, any point where its not humanly possible at a consistent basis where jagex can be completely sure, you think you still wouldnt get banned? :p

RiD
06-02-2010, 09:36 PM
What I meant was, you can't really make these objects "appear" to be real. In order to hide them from the players, you'd need to remove fields like interactable, top text and action etc, obviously otherwise when players hover over these "invisible" objects, they'd see random action text. We can filter an object through this.

There has always seemed to be a simple solution to a complicated problem with reflection. The very nature of writing a reflection/ BCEL bot requires you to understand what is going on in the client with what you're trying to write a hook for, so simply going on the basis of trying to confuse someone through the use of confusing code is on par with how well encryption/obfuscators prevent crackers (not very :P).

If Jagex were going to mess with renderring to create fake objects (I doubt they would, it would be very messy), they wouldn't stop at filtering the 3D model, they'd filter top text, etc, aswell. They'd leave interactability, to register clicks on fake objects, more easily. The server would only have to track which were real/fake, in order to send the right instructions back to the client. I'm not saying there wouldn't be some fundamental changes needed to the game engine, they'd have to increase the amount of communication between client and server for a start (for example, when you right-click, submenus would no longer be possible to generate from objects, and would rely on server instruction), to avoid side-effects caused by the presence of certain types of invisibile-interactable-fake-object. But shifting the difference between real/fake objects into the graphics renderring pipeline, is not impossible. Difficult yes, impossible no.

NightBlade09
06-02-2010, 11:01 PM
I never said those things cause you to get banned, it's merely a detection technique. Those two things get you flagged, the mere reason randoms were added was a autoing detection method.

Being stuck isn't necessarily failing anyway, and I don't know about botting for 4 days straight, perhaps only if your account was checked.

You're saying the account with the 4 days straight of autoing is still active with no ban as of now? And when was it when you did that?

Edit: ok heres the way i see it, you may be right with the way i said random failure, so ive made it into a more generic term, simply 'poor programming' which then leads to detectable algorithms but retains other elements like not solving randoms correctly, etc

but im 100% sure playtime has to do with it, just think an even more extreme circumstance, one week straight of playing, or one month, any point where its not humanly possible at a consistent basis where jagex can be completely sure, you think you still wouldnt get banned? :p

It's been about a month since I botted 4 days straight. I had several 3 day proggies. I basicly went 24/7 until the skill was 99.

I really don't think I would get banned if I went for weeks. No proof, no ban

Win
06-03-2010, 12:19 AM
well if only a month, then theres still plenty of room for a ban :s, what happened with my account

its most likely until they check

my friend went for 48 hours straight, its been around 3 months or so since and he finally got 10 dayed

NightBlade09
06-03-2010, 12:12 PM
well if only a month, then theres still plenty of room for a ban :s, what happened with my account

its most likely until they check

my friend went for 48 hours straight, its been around 3 months or so since and he finally got 10 dayed

What bot did he use? If I was him I would deny it and say Customer support made a mistake

Win
06-03-2010, 06:27 PM
perfectius nexus bot

NightBlade09
06-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Which skill?

Win
06-05-2010, 04:59 PM
hunter mts

shoompa
06-05-2010, 06:41 PM
thanks for the guide! very helpful!!!

Exarctus
06-05-2010, 09:27 PM
If Jagex were going to mess with renderring to create fake objects (I doubt they would, it would be very messy), they wouldn't stop at filtering the 3D model, they'd filter top text, etc, aswell. They'd leave interactability, to register clicks on fake objects, more easily. The server would only have to track which were real/fake, in order to send the right instructions back to the client. I'm not saying there wouldn't be some fundamental changes needed to the game engine, they'd have to increase the amount of communication between client and server for a start (for example, when you right-click, submenus would no longer be possible to generate from objects, and would rely on server instruction), to avoid side-effects caused by the presence of certain types of invisibile-interactable-fake-object. But shifting the difference between real/fake objects into the graphics renderring pipeline, is not impossible. Difficult yes, impossible no.

That would hugely increase server load. I don't think this is a changeable solution to their problem. Sure they could increase their server capacity to handle all the requests that'd come in, but they wouldn't be able to let the server "know" which are fake and which aren't, because in order to do that each fake object would have to have a marker of some sort to differentiate it. The server therefore would need to run the same algorithm as the client does, which is why I don't think it's tangeable.

Besides, these fake objects will still have a marker of some sort, regardless of what subversion tactics they try to use. Regardless of how difficult this marker is hidden, whether it be in the surface algorithm or straight up in the definition of vars. If something is difficult to find by working through it from the base up, it can be tracked to where the source of the discrepancy occurs by working from the top down, i.e, finding a fake object, loading it, and seeing where it's called in order to decipher a possible filter. I agree this would be a big task, but in comparison to the amount of work they'd have to undertake in order to implement it in the first place, it's tiny.

RiD
06-07-2010, 02:21 AM
they wouldn't be able to let the server "know" which are fake and which aren't

It's simple (the server spawns objects, not the client), for each fake object the server spawns it would keep track of a Unique ID (a character string unique to each object), and when the client returns an interaction which has the UID for a fake object, it would increment some sort of counter. By investigating the ratio of interactions with a fake objects per 100 clicks, etc - anything beyond a certain threshold would be solid evidence of macroing.


Besides, these fake objects will still have a marker of some sort, regardless of what subversion tactics they try to use.

In a good design, the algorithm would differentiate based on UID, allowing the knowledge of which were real and fake, to be kept tacit, not explicit. That means, there wouldn't be any flag for fakes, it would just be hardwired in. To illustrate - in the very simplest case you could have a system (on the client) where any objects with the letter 'A' in the UID were eliminated (from being drawn on screen). Basically, instead of a 'marker' you have a process to eliminate fakes, and the more complicated the better. Such is the range of possibility, they could actually create a program to write this algorithm, and update it automatically - allowing for a different implementation (reflection bots would need to decode) each RS update.

That would be a one-time deal for Jagex, but would lead reflection bots to have extra work, every single RS update - however I agree the initial amount of work required will no doubt scare Jagex off, and arguably it's a backward step for gameplay too, because the extra communication between client/server required.

Ethan
06-07-2010, 03:55 AM
What if we just remapped the controls.. configured the config to rester the capacitor on the motherboards hardwire... ya know.


sorry about this spam. but I never realized how complex jagex's technique is.
Also now i understand how i wont be banned using RiD... Even if the bot "screws up" and does something stupid..

I Like Pie
06-08-2010, 01:50 AM
I definitely feel I've learned something in reading this thread :P

Exarctus
06-09-2010, 02:19 PM
It's simple (the server spawns objects, not the client), for each fake object the server spawns it would keep track of a Unique ID (a character string unique to each object), and when the client returns an interaction which has the UID for a fake object, it would increment some sort of counter. By investigating the ratio of interactions with a fake objects per 100 clicks, etc - anything beyond a certain threshold would be solid evidence of macroing.



In a good design, the algorithm would differentiate based on UID, allowing the knowledge of which were real and fake, to be kept tacit, not explicit. That means, there wouldn't be any flag for fakes, it would just be hardwired in. To illustrate - in the very simplest case you could have a system (on the client) where any objects with the letter 'A' in the UID were eliminated (from being drawn on screen). Basically, instead of a 'marker' you have a process to eliminate fakes, and the more complicated the better. Such is the range of possibility, they could actually create a program to write this algorithm, and update it automatically - allowing for a different implementation (reflection bots would need to decode) each RS update.

That would be a one-time deal for Jagex, but would lead reflection bots to have extra work, every single RS update - however I agree the initial amount of work required will no doubt scare Jagex off, and arguably it's a backward step for gameplay too, because the extra communication between client/server required.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd need to pass the UID into the client in order for the client to know what to draw. In that case it would be a matter of cracking the UID encryption, and Jagex wouldn't employ this system because it no longer a matter of trying to outsmart a ref/bcel bot maker, it's a matter of string decryption. It all depends on how fast the decryption can be done, but you're right it would be extra work.

We've recently been able to get the colour models for particular entities ,which extends to grabbing the colour-maps defined by their skins. This method you've proposed would indeed get around our loading system, but it wouldn't get around this.

RiD
06-09-2010, 07:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd need to pass the UID into the client in order for the client to know what to draw. In that case it would be a matter of cracking the UID encryption, and Jagex wouldn't employ this system because it no longer a matter of trying to outsmart a ref/bcel bot maker, it's a matter of string decryption. It all depends on how fast the decryption can be done, but you're right it would be extra work.

We've recently been able to get the colour models for particular entities ,which extends to grabbing the colour-maps defined by their skins. This method you've proposed would indeed get around our loading system, but it wouldn't get around this.

You should read up on how 3D graphics renderring works, just because you have access to skins and models, does not mean you know what will and will not be drawn on the screen. As I mentioned, hidden surface removal is one example of that. Where entire 3D models are passed into the graphics renderring pipeline (every single frame, for as long as they exist in the scene) but not necessarily drawn on the screen (because for example, they may be behind a wall, etc). Grabbing the models and skins, is irrelevant, it does not prove it will be drawn on the screen.

Exarctus
06-09-2010, 09:21 PM
You should read up on how 3D graphics renderring works, just because you have access to skins and models, does not mean you know what will and will not be drawn on the screen. As I mentioned, hidden surface removal is one example of that. Where entire 3D models are passed into the graphics renderring pipeline (every single frame, for as long as they exist in the scene) but not necessarily drawn on the screen (because for example, they may be behind a wall, etc). Grabbing the models and skins, is irrelevant, it does not prove it will be drawn on the screen.

No no, what I meant was if you have the skin, you can compare it to the current output.

i.e, grab the model of the fake/non fake object, and capture the apparent image on screen. Clean up the image to remove any colours which aren't intersecting the image model itself. Compare the apparent image to the skin. This would of course would return false for models which are real, but are obscured by walls and whatever else prevents the rendering, but this is not any different from what you have to get around yourself.

There would need to be other checks to further verify a target. Assuming Jagex wouldn't stop and would apply the hidden surface to literally everything (including the minimap, for example), you could also employ a simple rgb count at the projected tile location on the minimap.

NeXus was originally a colour bot, and we still have all the API we used to use when we were employing that system.

Jon Snow
06-10-2010, 10:22 AM
Is it just must or has this argument spiralled way above my understanding of botting? haha

RiD
06-10-2010, 03:56 PM
No no, what I meant was if you have the skin, you can compare it to the current output.

i.e, grab the model of the fake/non fake object, and capture the apparent image on screen. Clean up the image to remove any colours which aren't intersecting the image model itself. Compare the apparent image to the skin. This would of course would return false for models which are real, but are obscured by walls and whatever else prevents the rendering, but this is not any different from what you have to get around yourself.

There would need to be other checks to further verify a target. Assuming Jagex wouldn't stop and would apply the hidden surface to literally everything (including the minimap, for example), you could also employ a simple rgb count at the projected tile location on the minimap.

NeXus was originally a colour bot, and we still have all the API we used to use when we were employing that system.

Oh, by looking at the screen? I thought you meant using reflection. Sure, that would be a way around, but there's always a countermeasure Jagex can use to get around that, then you can get around that, etc.

Compared to the techniques already discussed, it's relatively simple to apply filters that change the colors renderred from the colors of the skins - this already happens on a small scale, but they could take it a step up, to get around the workaround you suggest - for example instead of the real skins, they could use inverse colored skins (they wouldn't go for inverse, but a less easily reversed filter, and they could change the filter used automatically, each RS update) and flip them back before renderring, which wouldn't change the graphics at all, pretty much zero overheads, but would make the renderred output unrecognisable from the actual skins.

Jagex will have their own ideas, I think they're unlikely to take bot detection into the graphics renderring process, but basically if you are reading from data, there's always a potential update Jagex can make that will switch things up.

Exarctus
06-10-2010, 11:20 PM
Oh, by looking at the screen? I thought you meant using reflection. Sure, that would be a way around, but there's always a countermeasure Jagex can use to get around that, then you can get around that, etc.

Compared to the techniques already discussed, it's relatively simple to apply filters that change the colors renderred from the colors of the skins - this already happens on a small scale, but they could take it a step up, to get around the workaround you suggest - for example instead of the real skins, they could use inverse colored skins (they wouldn't go for inverse, but a less easily reversed filter, and they could change the filter used automatically, each RS update) and flip them back before renderring, which wouldn't change the graphics at all, pretty much zero overheads, but would make the renderred output unrecognisable from the actual skins.

Jagex will have their own ideas, I think they're unlikely to take bot detection into the graphics renderring process, but basically if you are reading from data, there's always a potential update Jagex can make that will switch things up.

Yeh that's the issue with any client-loading bot. Back when we were colour we had to do updates maybe once every month or two because of a simple hook break. Now that pretty much everything relies on reflection, we go down whenever runescape updates.

Jagex would have to pump a lot of resource into a system to throw us off. The sort of resource they'd need to invest is beyond their budget I think and will be the focus of their attention for a long time, rather than spending that time on updates/improvements to the game. They'd lose customers, creditability and hence more cash than what they originally budgeted for the new system, which is a massive con to implementing what you've suggested.

Secondly once that update is out, it would take us much less time and money to get around it than they initially invested in it, and they'd be left with a system which is only partially effective (in that it'l down us every time they update, updates might take longer, but updates will still occur).

Thirdly as you mentioned, they'd have to consider the server/client communication rate, which I think is the main technological road block for them.

So all in all, what you've said is possible, but the realism in this discussion is very up in the air. An analogy to this proposed system would be in kin to the possibility of having stable nuclear fusion fit in the same space as my bathroom. Technically possible, but realistically infeasible. There are far too many things to consider. And neither you or I can really ponder at what loop holes, defects or unavoidable voids in this technology would be until we see it.

RiD
06-11-2010, 02:15 AM
An analogy to this proposed system would be in kin to the possibility of having stable nuclear fusion fit in the same space as my bathroom. Technically possible, but realistically infeasible. There are far too many things to consider. And neither you or I can really ponder at what loop holes, defects or unavoidable voids in this technology would be until we see it.

Lol I wouldn't go that far. Stable nuclear fusion is not possible with current technology, whereas the methods I've proposed are possible, and not even massively difficult, definitely nowhere near the scale of conducting stable nuclear fusion in your bathroom. :p

Exarctus
06-14-2010, 08:33 AM
I think you're underestimating the gravity of the system your proposing.

I'm not just talking about getting down to the coding, I'm talking about the logistics of the whole operation.

adamstime
06-24-2010, 05:45 AM
i dont know why but this conversation is extremely interesting to me

please continue lol

flettino
07-06-2010, 03:57 PM
Thanks for this. :p

Mahalkitten
07-16-2010, 09:36 AM
true. this is why my personal opinion is that RiD should implement "times" rather than target # of ores (talking about powerminer, but instead of target ores it could be the target about of XP or w/e its called for other bots [i dont know because i have $0 credit] ). and possibly making a time limit 'cap' at 24 hours.

basically what i am saying is instead of the # of ores (again, reference to powerminer) or XP there should be an option to put in how many hours you want (under 24 hours). this could be an option, im not submitting my idea in hopes that it becomes permanent or mandatory but it would benefit all bot users and make the RiD bot even more undetectable.

thankyou for hopefully reading my post.

-anoob

Even with the time limit people will still overuse the bot... There's no way around it other than RID choosing each individual person that gets to use the bot...

Win
07-27-2010, 09:35 PM
updated and revamped the layout of thread :)

gunna request a change of title

Win
07-28-2010, 08:24 AM
'BOTTING 101'

CONTENTS:
[x (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?1681-Botting-101-%282%29&p=14409#post14409)] Rule of Thumb
[x (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?1681-Botting-101-%282%29&p=14410#post14410)] How Jagex decides if you bot
Other platforms
Robotz In Disguise
[x (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?1681-Botting-101-%282%29&p=14411#post14411)] Misc. Information

Win
07-28-2010, 08:24 AM
RULE OF THUMB:

Jagex, being a massive corporate company run by thousands of employees, must stick to a systematic process in doing anything in order to operate with high-efficiency and avoid any mistakes due to their giant customer usage.


With that in mind, they cannot and will not ban a player without conclusive evidence that point to macroing.Therefore, anything but what is listed below is probably not enough evidence for them to hand out a ban; only suspicion. Keep that in mind when you wonder, "is this detectable?". :)

Win
07-28-2010, 08:25 AM
HOW JAGEX DECIDES IF YOU BOT:
Quick and simple run-down on the various elements Jagex examines for botters.


Other platforms
(not produced by Robotz In Disguise)

Controlled by programmer


Spoof data/packets/objects/npc's,
Poor programming,

Detectable algorithms.


Controlled by user


Inhuman playtime,
HTTP referrer,
Admitting that you macro either by saying it upfront (accidental or purposeful) or revealing enough information about your account thus linking you to basically admitting it

Offences given however are usually less severe; "Encouraging others to break rules", rather than, "Macroing".


In the end, a large sum of it comes down to the experience of the programmer that wrote the bot and his ability to avoid Jagex's detection methods.




You are at your own risk to try other bots programmed by other programmers with unknown experiences in the programming field.

Robotz In Disguise



With RiD, you are assured with a highly professional programmer to insure your account's safety.
Only three methods are possible when using RiD: inhuman playtime, HTTP referrer, and admitting/revealing too much account information.

All of which are managed by the user; you are in complete control.

Win
07-28-2010, 08:26 AM
MISC. INFORMATION:


Being reported or having banned accounts on your IP address only results in your account being flagged and later checked upon. Thus, being reported while using any undetectable platform/bot and following all the points above is harmless.

Thus, an autotalker is not an actual necessity.


It's a must for Jagex to every so often clear out the logs (containing information whether you've botted) as they do not have unlimited storage.

So, if you think you've autoed on a platform/bot that has made you vulnerable to detection, wait a good 6 months or more without being reported or getting your account checked on to insure that you don't get banned.


It's rumored that they make a mandatory check on your account for macroing when you get a stat above 90.




That's pretty much it. Happy botting. ;)


Credits also to Exarctus (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/member.php?316-Exarctus) and NightBlade09 (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/member.php?2175-NightBlade09) for clarifying and/or supplying more information about various botting/detection techniques and bots to insure the accuracy of this post.

Trent!
07-28-2010, 09:07 AM
nice guide!! rating this 5/5 stars!

Jon Snow
07-28-2010, 02:41 PM
Well played win, another well constructed and informative post.

Good stuff

Regulater
08-03-2010, 12:14 AM
I have been botting since 2007 and up. RiD is just as detectable as anyother bot. Many of the nexus scripts are always updated to keep up with the times several days after updates. Unlike with RiD who is getting paid more than the Impsoft developers updates his script very few, and rarely updates. This is basically a job for RiD seeing how much he is getting paid through us ( The Buyers) for his script which charges by the hours. 300 hours of a RiD script is similar to a lifetime of any other nexus script, maybe even two. Impsoft hires many developers to make sure there updates always come out as fast as possible. Recently the Developer Duncun was fired from Rsbots.net scripting because he wasnt keeping his scripts up to date, and instantly hired a new Developer names Slade who already has a good working version of the scripts that Duncun had. Where as RiD does only 3 scripts by himself for paint recognition, which i do not know how hard it is but man of the Nexus scripts are thousands of raw lines even for the simplest task of alching/firemaking, and developers take on multiple scripts to boost their profit. Take Perfecticus for example, who scripts for AutoFighter.org, where he has i think it is 7 scripts which are all thousands of raw lines and are perfect (take his name *Perfect*icus), which he owns the current best hunter, and fighter bot out which he created raw. Also with the new graphical update RiD is going to be down for a long time seeing how he is going to have to update all the paint recognition files for each script.

I used rid for a few hundred hours and i am dissapointed in RiD so i quit using them. when dungeoneering came out there was a bugged tile that when you steeped on it it made you walk north, and with RiD i reported this problem to him and he did nothing about it letting his bot constantly go into this glitch and keep walking back and forth on that tile. Which is an easy way to get banned. RiD didnt do anything to fix this except wait till jagex fixed it themselves. This took weeks for them to fix it. With the nexus bots they quickly went and updated this so their bots could still be ran and make it seem like their not using bots. With RiD he told me not to do blacksmithing anymore and wait it out, which makes jagex think about all the people using RiD that the bot is not working and they can watch that spot and ban people. Unfortunatly that account i used got banned thanks to RiD but i never reported it because i played for more than 4 hours a day.

Also with RiD's Pest control i have actually compared it to many of the other paid and free pest controls and in my view RiD's is Primal to theirs. RiD's has many misclicks, and problems (i.e. Gets stuck if not in the spot next to board, and alot of other things.) While some of the paid ones will actaully walk you back and forth correctly to use the points and back to the board. With my experiance with RiD's it cant go and spend the points and correctly make it back to the boat. I had to always make it save the points and spend it when i played legitly on it.

With RiD it says dont use the bot more then 4 hours a day when botting. many actual legit players play for more than 4 hours a day. As in the fircape minigame takes some people 3 hours to finish. 4 hours does not seem much of a long time to actually play Runescape, when people that are addicted to it. 4 hours doing pest control, MTA, or blacksmithing; can get you banned just as fast as botting 12+ hours a day. Especially with all the misclicks and problems RiD has with his bots.

With my i bot 12 - 15 hours a day on accounts that i actually like to play on and want to keep. I bot myself 4 accounts at once, 2 using powerbot, and 2 using paid Auths. Those 12 - 15 hours are using nexus bots using the iBot client. Also on account that i dont care about i have actually botted for 100+ hours straight and havent had one of those accounts banned to this day. They do not check the ammount of time you bot, which i have tested and came to that conclusion myself.

I would also have to disagree with the part that says only 3 refer to RiD. RiD's Bots do have poor programming, atleast through my view when using RiD. RiD's bots have many problems and failures when i have run it. A Human player isnt going to run to spend the points in pest control and not be able to find the person to spend it on for hours, and not be able to run back to the boat and do the games again. Atleast with Nexus using NPC id's which are the Actual Runescape Id's, and not some id's just made up; it will be able to find the NPC and go back to the boat with no problem at all, like a regular person would. The Nexus bots use Runescape's Client, so its the same as going to their website and playing the game with your own mouse.

Also I do not know if its true but i do actually think Runescape creates some fake npc's that are invisible with no clicking area to try and fool a bot, but the nexus bot is able to detect this and not fall for it. It would show up in the BlackScreen saying something similar to this:
05:24:16:0780 INFO [Perfect Fighter] - BeeKeeper Random Detected, Attempting to solve
05:24:16:1250 INFO [Perfect Fighter] - BeeKeeper NPC not detected
05:24:16:1320 INFO [Perfect Fighter] - BeeKeeper Random Event Killed Restarting Script
Which shows that Fake NPC's, or random Events dont work against it.

Also with any paid scripts from Impsoft. If you sent a payment to (Mark Snellman through any method, means its an impsoft) which are scripts that are sold on R***ts.net, A*****ghter.org, K***er.org,(added so no advertising was in place) and others are all by very knowledgable developers. they are not jsut random people they found and told them to make scripts with barely any knowledge, most of them have just as good of a knowledge and maybe even better as RiD does.

Auxilium
08-03-2010, 03:56 PM
Nexus scripts are thousands of raw lines even for the simplest task of alching/firemaking

If that would be true, it would be dumb rather then amazing. If an bot has thousands of code-lines, it does not immediately says it is an great bot..



With RiD it says dont use the bot more then 4 hours a day when botting. many actual legit players play for more than 4 hours a day. As in the fircape minigame takes some people 3 hours to finish. 4 hours does not seem much of a long time to actually play Runescape, when people that are addicted to it. 4 hours doing pest control, MTA, or blacksmithing; can get you banned just as fast as botting 12+ hours a day. Especially with all the misclicks and problems RiD has with his bots.


8 hours. It is an guideline; not an rule.


(take his name *Perfect*icus)

So everything that has included "perfect" in its name should be considered as something perfect? I am messaging RiD now to change the bots name into
"PRiD".. [/sarcasm]


RiD's Bots do have poor programming, atleast through my view when using RiD.

Your view is just one, if you consider no one has ever been banned yet using these bots since the beginning (which.. followed the guidelines, that is)
and still make such an comment, I really think you slipped over an banana and landed on your head.

Edward
08-03-2010, 04:32 PM
From a technical standpoint the nexus platform is much easier to code for seeing as it uses IDs and such rather than color detection, which is what a real human does. And to say that the nexus scripts are better is kind of an insult, I do not make claims that I am a good java coder by any means but I could easily whip up a nexus script in maybe a day or a couple of days that would train say Mining. And even if mine was more reliable in the short term, meaning it would be able to mine continuously without getting errors, it would not be more reliable in the long run compared to RiD. Because no matter how many mistakes RiD's bots might make you will never get banned following the guidelines while for nexus users sooner or later you will get banned for using that platform because every single script acts in the same way. Jagex will develop a detection process targeted at nexus users sooner or later because one script acts the exact same way no matter who uses it, while RiD makes each and every botter have a different style so no two bots are alike.

Aufisan
08-03-2010, 04:46 PM
Regulator, your intelligence is painful. I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph due to *facepalming* too much.
If you really love neXus so much, then go use neXus instead of RiD. It's your choice what you want to use, and we don't really care which path you choose.


I have been botting since 2007 and up. RiD is just as detectable as anyother bot.

That's a good one.


Many of the nexus scripts are always updated to keep up with the times several days after updates. Unlike with RiD who is getting paid more than the Impsoft developers updates his script very few, and rarely updates.

Do you even realize what you're saying here? The reason why RiD doesn't update that often, is because there's nothing to update unless graphics are changed in-game, which is rare. Of course if bugs are found, he'll have to iron those out, but RiD rarely has any bugs in the bots, and even if there are, unlike you say, he fixes it very fast.


Also with the new graphical update RiD is going to be down for a long time seeing how he is going to have to update all the paint recognition files for each script.

Really? We'll see about that. When the RuneTek5 update was released, it took RiD 24 hours to update all the bots to a complete working condition. How long did it take for neXus to update? From what I remember it took them days to fix.


Also I do not know if its true but i do actually think Runescape creates some fake npc's that are invisible with no clicking area to try and fool a bot, but the nexus bot is able to detect this and not fall for it.

Biggest facepalm so far. Fake NPC's were introduced in RuneScape due to bots using ID's to locate NPC's and items. RiD does not use ID's, and therefore it doesn't affect us. If it weren't for bots such as neXus, RSbot, kBot etc, fake NPC's wouldn't exist in RuneScape today. Keep that in mind.

Well, your entire post is a big clich. You haven't made a single fact about us, except the thing about the bugged tile introduced after the Dungeoneering update. But there's not much RiD can do about a RuneScape bug, now is there?

If RiD bots aren't working for you, it's only your fault. You seem to think you're a smart guy, and therefore it should be easy for you to setup a friendly bot as RiD.

Nice try though.

Jon Snow
08-03-2010, 05:04 PM
This is the biggest load of tripe i've ever heard, atleast when an official scripter came and argued the case for reflection bots, he used logic , intelligence and facts. Rather than a large paragraph of over written, under researched bollocks.

This post is clearly an attempt to persaude people to not by rid bots, however the free trials speak for themselves, as well as the members here who are all reasonable people and state the facts about their rid acheivements.

RiD
08-03-2010, 06:04 PM
A bit too late to stop you getting flamed Regulater, but...


RiD who is getting paid more than the Impsoft developers updates his script very few, and rarely updates.
RiD updates twice a month on average, which is probably more than the average Nexus dev updates a script (the Nexus platform updates because it becomes broken regularly, every time RS updates). It's disrespectful to bring income into it, not least because you don't know how much it costs, or earns.


Also with the new graphical update RiD is going to be down for a long time seeing how he is going to have to update all the paint recognition files for each script.
The biggest graphic update there's ever been was 'Tek 5', and RiD was back online within 24 hours, a week before Nexus. This is before your time, but you still shouldn't speculate on things you don't know about.


when dungeoneering came out there was a bugged tile that when you steeped on it it made you walk north, and with RiD i reported this problem to him and he did nothing about it letting his bot constantly go into this glitch and keep walking back and forth on that tile. Which is an easy way to get banned. RiD didnt do anything to fix this except wait till jagex fixed it themselves. This took weeks for them to fix it. With the nexus bots they quickly went and updated this so their bots could still be ran and make it seem like their not using bots. With RiD he told me not to do blacksmithing anymore and wait it out, which makes jagex think about all the people using RiD that the bot is not working and they can watch that spot and ban people. Unfortunatly that account i used got banned thanks to RiD but i never reported it
I can understand how somebody could naively believe otherwise, but macro detection systems aren't things you 'visibly' see - it was a temporary pathfinding glitch in RS, introduced by accident when they coded the dungeoneering portal in Al-Kharid (and the only reason I didn't update the bot was because they said they were fixing it, and I didn't know it would take them so long for a simple issue like that). As you say, you've used bots since 2007, but only joined RiD in late Feb 2010. Your constant use of other (some you listed are highly detectable) bots, is the cause of your ban. If this had been a detection system for RiD, I wouldn't only be hearing about it now (several months later), from apparently the one and only victim.

You've had a nightmare post in general.

With RiD it says dont use the bot more then 4 hours a day when botting...
Here are the RiD guidelines (https://www.robotzindisguise.com/Guidelines.htm), in clear English... 'it says' 8 hours a day! Along with the extra information, that it's very rare to be banned after excessive use (and it only comes into play if a J-Mod investigates your account).

Ethan
08-03-2010, 06:21 PM
"Here are the RiD guidelines, in clear English... 'it says' 8 hours a day! Along with the extra information, that it's very rare to be banned after excessive use (and it only comes into play if a J-Mod investigates your account)."

Somedays I use my bot 4 hours sometimes 10. I know when I use it for over 8 I'm taking a risk. You can use the bot as much as you want. But once you use it for over 8 hours it's your problem if you get banned.

Triggerfinger
08-03-2010, 06:40 PM
Somedays I use my bot 4 hours sometimes 10. I know when I use it for over 8 I'm taking a risk. You can use the bot as much as you want. But once you use it for over 8 hours it's your problem if you get banned.

Imo we can easily go over 8 hours and not get banned. Its people who go 15-24 hrs a day all the time that risk getting banned. I've easily went 10-12 hrs a day and never have been banned using RID

Win
08-03-2010, 08:12 PM
haha guys no need to write another page correcting him xD

run-down of his post:

1a. he obv doesnt understand how the detection system works, they dont video tape your screen, its all based off numbers and logs, thats the base flaw of his entire post, nothing else needed to say cuz everything is pretty much based off that :p
1b. many of his points are based off speculation with no logical reference or stand point
2. hes whiner, a bug caused by jagex wasnt fixed for a week or so made him cry

good enough for me ;)

Jon Snow
08-03-2010, 08:13 PM
Argh this idiot has ruined a very good post by win.

Regulater
08-04-2010, 12:25 AM
Actually RiD has the same chance of getting banned just as anyone else. Any type of 3rd party software can get you banned just as easy as RiD or any other Bot. Nexus bots are similar to RiD bots too. The difference between RiD's bots are usually a speed of mouse, a route the mouse takes (i.e. the straightness of the mouse when clicking,etc.), and maybe misclicks. Those can all be done with nexus too, When starting up a Nexus script you are given the choice of the mouse speed ( from a scale of 1-100), pause inbetween clicks (1-100), and pausing (1-100) which you can make it always different everytime you use. RiD its always the same because he gives you it, with no choice over those options yourself. you are not always going to move you mouse at the same speed, click at the same speed, and pause inbetween things at the same speed, which is what makes failed scripts, and bots bannable. I bet if i botted with RiD as much as i did with Nexus a day i would be banned with in a couple weeks.

RiD says only use your bot 4 hours a day. Have you noticed some quests take longer then 4 hours and shows that runescape suspects you to play more then 4 hours a day. If you were to spend the 8 hours to do While Guthix Sleeps quest, then they could get suspicious.

With Nexus i use there bot 15+ hours a day and never have gottten banned. I bot 4 accounts at once for 15+ hours a day. right now i have a 7 day soul wars nexus script going and i have gotten over 700 zeals without getting abnned. i do this on multiple accounts and never gotten banned. I have gotten banned with RiD for playing 8 hours a day.

So obviously RiD fails compared to Nexus

Win
08-04-2010, 12:41 AM
its a complex algorithm thats proven undetectable, just by the eye i couldnt tell the difference between a real mouse and rid's mouse movement, and thats already way more than necessary, nexus' mouse movements arent as good, but does the job fine

for the second time, he enforces 8h a day, not 4

i bot 12-18h a day every day nexus or rid, no ban yet, my post explains everything, idfk what ur rambling about

Edward
08-04-2010, 01:10 AM
Actually RiD has the same chance of getting banned just as anyone else. Any type of 3rd party software can get you banned just as easy as RiD or any other Bot. Nexus bots are similar to RiD bots too. The difference between RiD's bots are usually a speed of mouse, a route the mouse takes (i.e. the straightness of the mouse when clicking,etc.), and maybe misclicks. Those can all be done with nexus too, When starting up a Nexus script you are given the choice of the mouse speed ( from a scale of 1-100), pause inbetween clicks (1-100), and pausing (1-100) which you can make it always different everytime you use. RiD its always the same because he gives you it, with no choice over those options yourself. you are not always going to move you mouse at the same speed, click at the same speed, and pause inbetween things at the same speed, which is what makes failed scripts, and bots bannable. I bet if i botted with RiD as much as i did with Nexus a day i would be banned with in a couple weeks.

I am sorry but I have to do this.

http://skepticalteacher.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/facepalm.jpg

First off you speak of how RiD's mouse movements are detectable and are just as easy to make using NeXus. This to me shows how arrogant and misinformed you are. RiD's mouse movements are not just based on an algorithm like all of the mouse movements that NeXus uses. RiD's are well I really do not know what they are as he never reveals them but it is part algorithm and part something else making it impossible to even detect a bot by the mouse movements. Where as Nexus if you get reported and your account is reviewed by a Jagex Mod you will most likely be banned because of the mouse movements as it is very very unhumanlike.

Second thing that shows me your I.Q. level is no higher than a certain marsupial from Australia is the fact that a three people posted about the 4 hour limit you talk about correcting you that it is actually an 8 hour suggestion. Again it is suggested to bot for 8 hours each day, not 4 hours, and it is not a limit. In fact sometimes I would go even above bottting 8 hours a day. This suggestion is there for those people who bot 24/7 then complain that this bot is supposed to be undetectable yet they got banned.

No matter what bot you have you will get banned for playing 24/7 for a month because you are not allowed to share accounts and one person cannot possibly play a video game for 24 hours a day for a month.



RiD says only use your bot 4 hours a day. Have you noticed some quests take longer then 4 hours and shows that runescape suspects you to play more then 4 hours a day. If you were to spend the 8 hours to do While Guthix Sleeps quest, then they could get suspicious.

With Nexus i use there bot 15+ hours a day and never have gottten banned. I bot 4 accounts at once for 15+ hours a day. right now i have a 7 day soul wars nexus script going and i have gotten over 700 zeals without getting abnned. i do this on multiple accounts and never gotten banned. I have gotten banned with RiD for playing 8 hours a day.

So obviously RiD fails compared to Nexus

You did not get banned because of RiD, like you said you have been botting since 2007, which I doubt seeing as you know nothing about any of the bots, it is highly likely that you were using a Nexus bot then switched to RiD's bots and then gotten banned while using RiD's bots. RiD's bots did not cause the ban it was just a coincidence you were using them at the time of the ban. It takes Mods an average of 2-4 weeks and sometimes even longer to actually ban an account after a report has been submitted. Some people have even gotten banned months after they have been botted on.

I also doubt that you got banned because of RiD due to this fact, you used the MTA bot I am assuming and RiD can confirm this for me, but to get enough starting cash and to get a high enough magic level to use the bot I bet you used a Nexus bot such as maybe a flax picker or an autofighter just to prepare the account for the MTA.

Payton
08-04-2010, 01:22 AM
Edward: 2

regulater: 0

Win
08-04-2010, 01:23 AM
nexus bots mouse movements are slightly unhuman like, but nonetheless undetectable :p

wtf where are my points?! xD

Edward
08-04-2010, 01:28 AM
I didnt mean to say that they are ultra detectable, but when you look at them you can see how unhumanlike they are compared to RiD.

Win
08-04-2010, 01:30 AM
ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok i let u go dis time ;)

i keed i keed

Payton
08-04-2010, 01:49 AM
I actually only read Ed's post when i posted that, lol. Little did i know EVERYONE owned this ignorant wannabe :D

Ethan
08-04-2010, 01:55 AM
I actually only read Ed's post when i posted that, lol. Little did i know EVERYONE owned this ignorant wannabe :D

yeah that's how we do it here.

RiD
08-04-2010, 04:16 AM
Regulator... Tbh, I was already pretty sure you were lying/trolling.

I went to the database (which stores doubly encrpyted records, part of the ban verification process) I decrypted your training records and to my shock, all three of the accounts Regulater used RiD on are still in the hi-scores - none of them are banned.

Look him up: regsrangestr, tenzo0k and s0ul maul.

I'd never put a RSN on the forum, but you came here to spread malicious rumors about my software and I'm exposing you, it's an exceptional circumstance... Until you apologise for your bullshit, and furthermore thank me for the 99 strength (you achieved with 250 hours of RiD PestControl) I will leave your RSN's here... It's the most idiotic thing anyone has ever done on the forum so far... This sums up what's wrong with the botting scene, there's already plenty mis-information spread around, but you don't get away with it on this website.


Actually RiD has the same chance of getting banned just as anyone else. Any type of 3rd party software can get you banned just as easy as RiD or any other Bot. Nexus bots are similar to RiD bots too. The difference between RiD's bots are usually a speed of mouse, a route the mouse takes (i.e. the straightness of the mouse when clicking,etc.), and maybe misclicks. Those can all be done with nexus too, When starting up a Nexus script you are given the choice of the mouse speed ( from a scale of 1-100), pause inbetween clicks (1-100), and pausing (1-100) which you can make it always different everytime you use. RiD its always the same because he gives you it, with no choice over those options yourself. you are not always going to move you mouse at the same speed, click at the same speed, and pause inbetween things at the same speed, which is what makes failed scripts, and bots bannable. I bet if i botted with RiD as much as i did with Nexus a day i would be banned with in a couple weeks.

RiD says only use your bot 4 hours a day. Have you noticed some quests take longer then 4 hours and shows that runescape suspects you to play more then 4 hours a day. If you were to spend the 8 hours to do While Guthix Sleeps quest, then they could get suspicious.

With Nexus i use there bot 15+ hours a day and never have gottten banned. I bot 4 accounts at once for 15+ hours a day. right now i have a 7 day soul wars nexus script going and i have gotten over 700 zeals without getting abnned. i do this on multiple accounts and never gotten banned. I have gotten banned with RiD for playing 8 hours a day.

So obviously RiD fails compared to Nexus

Joker, well I await the apology, and until then your RSN will remain here.

Edward
08-04-2010, 04:21 AM
OMFG Owned to the tenth degree!

I love how you can clearly see on both accounts he used RiD's bots. Such as 99 Str - pest control bot
on the second account he has mining and smithing levels show up on the high scores only - also RiD's bots, powerminer/blacksmith

Could just be a coincidence but I don't think so.

Also I love this part



With Nexus i use there bot 15+ hours a day and never have gottten banned. I bot 4 accounts at once for 15+ hours a day. right now i have a 7 day soul wars nexus script going and i have gotten over 700 zeals without getting abnned. i do this on multiple accounts and never gotten banned. I have gotten banned with RiD for playing 8 hours a day.

If he has been botting since 2007 and bots 15+ hours a day, how come his only 99 is from RiD's Pest Control bot?

Duane
08-04-2010, 04:27 AM
I <3 trolls.

And yes, I have absolutely nothing important to add.

Win
08-04-2010, 04:28 AM
Lolwadoalwd0awdlawd0aowdaw0doalwd0dowad0aowdlaw0do awd0awodlaw0doalwdoawld0awold0awodlaw0dpoaw0dpoawd 0apwld0awpdaw0pdaw-0pd0aodlaw0dolawo0doalwod0awold0awodlaw0doawld0aod la0wdolawd0aowldaw0doaowd0awldaw0podlaw0dolawd0aow ld0awdlaw0dlaw0doawld0aowld0awodlawd0oalwd0aowld0a wodlaw0dolawd0aowld0awodlaw0doawld0awoldaw0dolawd0 oawld0awoldaw0pdolaow0doalwd0aowldoaw0odlaw0dolawd 0oawld0aowld0awoldaw0dolaw0dolawd0aowd0awdolaw0doa lwd0awodlaw0doawd0oalwd0awodlaw0dolaw0doalwd0aowld aw0l~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RiD: 9000+
Regulater: -∞

feelinguilty
08-04-2010, 04:38 AM
uh, just tossing in my own 2 cents lol: On the RSbots . net site (didnt want hyperlink) they have records for how long their bots run and one moron managed to keep a bot playing soul wars for 16 DAYS

ToshiXZ
08-04-2010, 04:39 AM
So much overreaction XD

Ehh, since the discussion seems to be RiD VS Nexus atm, I'll contribute to it.

I've used all bots from Robotz In Disguise, and I have all the scripts from nexus as well as have used all the premium scripts.

Which is safer:
This depends, in all honesty. If you're GOING to follow RiD's guidelines, it is the safer bot. However, if you can not, or do not want to use them, I've found I've been banned with RiD (multiple times) and never with nexus. I've more or less created by own botting guidelines for nexus and I've stayed VERY safe.

Since I do have my own guidelines and have gotten 4 99s with nexus, and at best 91 magic with Robotz In Disguise, I like nexus a fair bit more. Robotz In Disguise has had quite a few more bugs for me than nexus' premium scripts, but the errors are generally only for a few users...

RiD also has major problems with general usage for my computer. I can run the bot decently well with every process ended (explorer.exe, and all unnecessary processes), but encounter some problems with general lag on Alchemist (just bad reaction times, it's extremely noticeable), and MAJOR FPS lag on Pest Control Beginner(Not intermediate which is the funniest part;) )

Nexus I can run the bot, and ventrilo and not having any lag. The use of my mouse is quite helpful as well :p (Yes I've used VMWare, it's too laggy and my CPU can't handle it). The lag is possibly due to my location in the world and not being close enough to a server. IIRC my average ping is 200ish, way too high for human-like reactions.

Versatility is also a major issue with RiD. Only being able to run on Windows with certain themes is an extreme restriction for me. Especially since I have about 250$ per month in VPS's ;)

So my final conclusion:
RiD is the "better" bot under perfect circumstances. However, in substandard circumstances nexus has prevailed quite obviously for me.



It is also extremely unfortunate that Regulator is uninformed and doesn't quite know what he's talking about =]

Edward
08-04-2010, 04:44 AM
I think RiD's Post deserves the "Post of the Year" award so here it is

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3642/postz.png (http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15676#post15676)

Win
08-04-2010, 04:50 AM
So much overreaction XD

Ehh, since the discussion seems to be RiD VS Nexus atm, I'll contribute to it.

I've used all bots from Robotz In Disguise, and I have all the scripts from nexus as well as have used all the premium scripts.

Which is safer:
This depends, in all honesty. If you're GOING to follow RiD's guidelines, it is the safer bot. However, if you can not, or do not want to use them, I've found I've been banned with RiD (multiple times) and never with nexus. I've more or less created by own botting guidelines for nexus and I've stayed VERY safe.

Since I do have my own guidelines and have gotten 4 99s with nexus, and at best 91 magic with Robotz In Disguise, I like nexus a fair bit more. Robotz In Disguise has had quite a few more bugs for me than nexus' premium scripts, but the errors are generally only for a few users...

RiD also has major problems with general usage for my computer. I can run the bot decently well with every process ended (explorer.exe, and all unnecessary processes), but encounter some problems with general lag on Alchemist (just bad reaction times, it's extremely noticeable), and MAJOR FPS lag on Pest Control Beginner(Not intermediate which is the funniest part;) )

Nexus I can run the bot, and ventrilo and not having any lag. The use of my mouse is quite helpful as well :p (Yes I've used VMWare, it's too laggy and my CPU can't handle it). The lag is possibly due to my location in the world and not being close enough to a server. IIRC my average ping is 200ish, way too high for human-like reactions.

Versatility is also a major issue with RiD. Only being able to run on Windows with certain themes is an extreme restriction for me. Especially since I have about 250$ per month in VPS's ;)

So my final conclusion:
RiD is the "better" bot under perfect circumstances. However, in substandard circumstances nexus has prevailed quite obviously for me.



It is also extremely unfortunate that Regulator is uninformed and doesn't quite know what he's talking about =]
why do u say rid is safer if u follow the guidelines? wudnt any other bot, including nexus, become just as safe if not safer in ur context if u follow rids guidelines?

another way to say it, how does following rids guidelines make it more dangerous running nexus or other platforms? :o

else everything else is fine, i cant quite comment on ur rid experiences with lag, cuz like ur statement about living in a place thats too far from rids servers, i dont have any experiences with that so i cant say... even if though, because your movements are less humanly and a bit slow from lag, it shouldnt make it more detectable, hmm

Triggerfinger
08-04-2010, 04:50 AM
ROFL LOLOLOL RID I love you man (in a friendly way) you owned regulator so bad hahahaha if jagex runs through here and i hope they do hopefully he will get banhammer.. GF regulator

ToshiXZ
08-04-2010, 04:52 AM
why do u say rid is safer if u follow the guidelines? wudnt any other bot, including nexus, become just as safe if not safer in ur context if u follow rids guidelines?

another way to say it, how does following rids guidelines make it more dangerous running nexus or other platforms? :o

What I'm saying is that RiD's detection rate soars way higher than nexus' if you AREN'T following the guidelines.

Yes, following RiD-type guidelines on nexus makes nexus quite good as well.

As I finalized: RiD is better under perfect conditions. With subperfect conditions nexus is better for me.

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:04 AM
See where Nexus kind of fails is when you are reported by a user for Macroing, this is where RiD will surpass Nexus everywhere. Jagex will look at mouse movements, reaction times, and so on and so on to decide whether or not the reported user is a botter or not. RiD is immune to this if you follow the guidelines.

Also Sadyda unless you run the bot 15 hours + a day for a month, which is very unrealistic, you probably will not get banned using RiD. I have done so when I was close to 99 mage and was doing enchant for 14+ hours a day for a few days.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:06 AM
What I'm saying is that RiD's detection rate soars way higher than nexus' if you AREN'T following the guidelines.

Yes, following RiD-type guidelines on nexus makes nexus quite good as well.

As I finalized: RiD is better under perfect conditions. With subperfect conditions nexus is better for me.

ye nexus can run in wayyy more stressful situations (comp wise), considering it uses an internal mouse and also ids and such make it way easier to operate

and y u say dat? i been using rid for 16h day from da start, over 1.4k hours used, no ban yet, same with nexus :p

one of my accs got banned from using a free bot tho, but that was ages ago i didnt know shit about botting, it was before i knew wtf bcel meant lol


See where Nexus kind of fails is when you are reported by a user for Macroing, this is where RiD will surpass Nexus everywhere. Jagex will look at mouse movements, reaction times, and so on and so on to decide whether or not the reported user is a botter or not. RiD is immune to this if you follow the guidelines.

Also Sadyda unless you run the bot 15 hours + a day for a month, which is very unrealistic, you probably will not get banned using RiD. I have done so when I was close to 99 mage and was doing enchant for 14+ hours a day for a few days.

naw, as long as the algorithm is undetectable it dont matter if it doesnt look human, because they cant see anyway, they dont watch ur screen, only logs and numbers, theres not much you can tell from a reaction time alone either

and once again, ive been botting 12-16 hours a day, on 2 accounts back to back, or simultaneously (on 2 comps) for a good half a year now, a couple months after i got unlimited here, and got my first pure acc banned for using a free bot

once again.... everything u should know about botting ive posted on this thread, im positive, but ehh :p

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:09 AM
I say that because I am sure I got reported using Perfecticus' autofighter bot and a couple months later I got a perm ban. While accounts I have used RiD on are still unbanned and are still going strong.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:10 AM
did u do anything else besides perfs bot?

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:12 AM
did u do anything else besides perfs bot?

Nope I only used pers bots fletching firemaking and autofighter. But I am 99% sure I got reported using the fighter. I have been botting for a while and know not to use free open source scripts as they are the worst. But having aquired 2 bans one from using Perfs bots I do not trust any other bot besides RiD's anymore.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:19 AM
hmm, so ur saying, u made the acc, and immediately started botting perfs autofighter? no history of botting at all otherwise?

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:23 AM
honestly only RiD's bot was used before that for Mage training. Other than that yes only perfs bots. Infact that whole account was structured around perfs bots. When I made it I used the autofighter to level it up and get it cash and so on and so on. And I followed RiD's guidelines except for a few times when I excessively botted but not unrealisticly. Just maybe a 14 hour session followed by a 10 hour session and so on, so RiD being the cause of the ban is very unlikely. And those sessions were only when I was close to 99 mage which is realistically what a real player would do they would pull maybe an all nighter to get that 99 mage etc. It is Nexus and I am 100% sure of it. I am sure I got reported botting at druids a couple of times and that caused the ban.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:31 AM
sheeeeeeeeeeeet wen was dis?

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:34 AM
My account was banned about 6-8 months ago, and I haven't used their bots anymore. My month estimate might be off as lately I have been very bad at keeping track of months and days.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:36 AM
ye, it mightve been when they first released the new detection method, spoof data like mentioned, back when it was first released there was a couple of days if not weeks that the bots were vulnerable and then the coders figured it out and stopped it from happening, since then its been fixed though

so idk, that may quite possibly the be explanation, otherwise logically it doesnt quite make sense :X

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:41 AM
ye, it mightve been when they first released the new detection method, spoof data like mentioned, back when it was first released there was a couple of days if not weeks that the bots were vulnerable and then the coders figured it out and stopped it from happening, since then its been fixed though

so idk, that may quite possibly the be explanation, otherwise logically it doesnt quite make sense :X

How does it not make sense that I got reported by users and after review I was banned? I mean every Autofighter bot acts in the same exact way and it is obvious. If I go to druids I can tell who is a bot and who is not. One thing that makes this bot obvious is when you are attacking a monster and kill him you automatically attack the next npc then go back and retreive your loot then go back to attacking.

I am sure Jagex could have picked up on that and when reports came in if the user mimicked those actions described above they would get banned.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:44 AM
not conclusive evidence mate :S

just by looks i can tell plenty of people that are botting, even rid bots, but thats not enough for jagex to apply a ban, like i said in the post:


Jagex, being a massive corporate company run by thousands of employees, must stick to a systematic process in doing anything in order to operate with high-efficiency and avoid any mistakes due to their giant customer usage.


With that in mind, they cannot and will not ban a player without conclusive evidence that point to macroing.
Therefore, anything but what is listed below is probably not enough evidence for them to hand out a ban; only suspicion. Keep that in mind when you wonder, "is this detectable?".

and on ur attack, attack, loot point, plenty of people do that, in fact that saves time, u attack maybe 5 druids, all loots on ground, then u pick them all up at once before they appear to others or disappear, of course, thats not relevant as i said it doesnt matter anywayhttp://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/../images/smilies/smile.gif

Edward
08-04-2010, 05:53 AM
not conclusive evidence mate :S

just by looks i can tell plenty of people that are botting, even rid bots, but thats not enough for jagex to apply a ban, like i said in the post:



and on ur attack, attack, loot point, plenty of people do that, in fact that saves time, u attack maybe 5 druids, all loots on ground, then u pick them all up at once before they appear to others or disappear, of course, thats not relevant as i said it doesnt matter anywayhttp://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/../images/smilies/smile.gif

You did not understand the pattern.
It goes like this

attack
kill
click loot
before getting to loot attack next npc
click loot again and collect it
finish killing npc you attacked
repeat.

It is very easy to spot botters using Perfecticus' bots. In fact I bet if I go to any world and go to Ardougne Chaos Druids I can point out all of the botters there.

Win
08-04-2010, 05:57 AM
i dont need to understand the pattern as the conceptual relevancy is invalid:
when people fletch, they go, bank, cut into bow, bank, because they repeat a pattern doesnt mean anything, you see my point here? jagex cant go off their guts, even if 1000 people do the same thing, they need CONCLUSIVE evidence, as in a detectable algorithm where mouse movement can be mechanically calculated, etc, etc i think u get my point :p

once again i wanna quote what i just said, but that would be pushing it >.<

and like i made sure to mention when i explained the pattern thing, its not relevant if its not conclusive :[, its just a exclusive argument specifically for what you mentioned as a given example, my basis argument is still uncontested (not to sound competitive :p)

Edward
08-04-2010, 06:50 AM
i dont need to understand the pattern as the conceptual relevancy is invalid:
when people fletch, they go, bank, cut into bow, bank, because they repeat a pattern doesnt mean anything, you see my point here? jagex cant go off their guts, even if 1000 people do the same thing, they need CONCLUSIVE evidence, as in a detectable algorithm where mouse movement can be mechanically calculated, etc, etc i think u get my point :p

once again i wanna quote what i just said, but that would be pushing it >.<

and like i made sure to mention when i explained the pattern thing, its not relevant if its not conclusive :[, its just a exclusive argument specifically for what you mentioned as a given example, my basis argument is still uncontested (not to sound competitive :p)

The reason I even brought up the pattern is not because I wanted to prove that Jagex bans on that reason alone, you misunderstood me, the reason I brought it up is because to other players it becomes obvious if you are botting and they will report you. And everyone knows that if you are reported for macroing your chances of receiving a ban skyrocket because sooner or later Jagex will investigate the account.

Regulater
08-04-2010, 06:58 AM
I never put in the username for all the accounts i used. Also i only put regsrangestr up there because after it logged out through any reason i wanted it to start on my other account because it would most likely have almost done all the steel bars. Look up Sniff It262 that was my banned account.

Also those account you posted are not under my control anymore. They all have been sold. So you basically are screwing over the people that bought those accounts. If they ever get banned i wouldnt be the reason. =). so you just canceled me out on ToS because i wasnt cause of ban. So now no need of worry once the 2 months pass and jagex decides if those accoutns should be banned. all i can say is Thank you =) you saved me $800 to be returned if those accoutns got banned.

Thank you RiD!@!@!@!

Win
08-04-2010, 07:05 AM
The reason I even brought up the pattern is not because I wanted to prove that Jagex bans on that reason alone, you misunderstood me, the reason I brought it up is because to other players it becomes obvious if you are botting and they will report you. And everyone knows that if you are reported for macroing your chances of receiving a ban skyrocket because sooner or later Jagex will investigate the account.
and my argument still stands, no matter how many times u get reported, if they dont have conclusive evidence they cant ban you regardless

Jon Snow
08-04-2010, 08:12 AM
Hey guys i think we've found the missing link in evolution! Regulator! Im glad I have been sleeping, couldn't hack spouting rubbish with this moron.

Auxilium
08-04-2010, 12:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhbqNdQhIg

Found this video yesterday, hilarious and it shows how intelligent most bots are.
Go to 1:55 for the action. :-P

Jon Snow
08-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Attack the rune!!!

RiD
08-04-2010, 01:43 PM
I never put in the username for all the accounts i used. Also i only put regsrangestr up there because after it logged out through any reason i wanted it to start on my other account because it would most likely have almost done all the steel bars. Look up Sniff It262 that was my banned account.

Also those account you posted are not under my control anymore. They all have been sold. So you basically are screwing over the people that bought those accounts. If they ever get banned i wouldnt be the reason. =). so you just canceled me out on ToS because i wasnt cause of ban. So now no need of worry once the 2 months pass and jagex decides if those accoutns should be banned. all i can say is Thank you =) you saved me $800 to be returned if those accoutns got banned.

Thank you RiD!@!@!@!

regsranger (used 90% of your relatively small total credit), spent 204371 seconds training Blacksmith, and 711116 seconds in Pest Control. Judging from your credit use, and your reaction, I'd say that's your main account.
Tenzo0k spent 20124 seconds in BlackSmith, 0 in PC.
s0ul maul spent 299 seconds in BlackSmith (doing 45 steel bars), and 133880 seconds in PC.
There is no fourth account, all the accounts you trained with RiD remain unbanned.

If those aren't your accounts anymore I doubt they'll be banned. I'm just exposing (even though it was obvious already), exactly what you're up to. Don't temp me to be a jackass and put your IP address here. If you had any decency, you wouldn't want the guys you (apparently) sold these accounts to, to get banned... instead of celebrating the prospect.

Jon Snow
08-04-2010, 01:51 PM
RiD does not tolerate fools lightly by the looks of it, i'm glad i'm on his side completely XD

Win
08-04-2010, 04:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhbqNdQhIg

Found this video yesterday, hilarious and it shows how intelligent most bots are.
Go to 1:55 for the action. :-P
l0l yeah, and yet i bet they remain unbanned as long as they dont over bot...

The Razor
08-04-2010, 09:11 PM
lol can we jsut settle this?
its VERY easy to dectect code being inserted/read in game but its almost impossible to detect colors being read from the screen , with out ruining the tgame for other normal players , (like zezisma , who has no life)

so over all
rid>nexus
rid>rs2bot
rid>every other poorly programmed bot

because or the sheer fact that fagex cant come to every1s house and see if theres a person at the chair or not

and


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhbqNdQhIg

Found this video yesterday, hilarious and it shows how intelligent most bots are.
Go to 1:55 for the action. :-P
now you see the people who arent using rid

Win
08-04-2010, 09:36 PM
lol u should read what ive been saying

Regulater
08-05-2010, 07:11 AM
lol can we jsut settle this?
its VERY easy to dectect code being inserted/read in game but its almost impossible to detect colors being read from the screen , with out ruining the tgame for other normal players , (like zezisma , who has no life)

so over all
rid>nexus
rid>rs2bot
rid>every other poorly programmed bot

because or the sheer fact that fagex cant come to every1s house and see if theres a person at the chair or not

and

now you see the people who arent using rid

Well i guess RiD may be better against some bots due to the fact that its Paint Recognition, and palys straight off the Runescape Website, more humanlike, etc. But Nexus does have its ups too. Also i dont think you should be comparing RiD bots to a GDK bot. Most GDK bots are really big time failures. But with an Autofighter bot that type of stuff wouldnt happen as it does in that video because autofighter you can choose your own drops to pick up, and control the space that it picks the stuff up in. But i haave heard that nexus's Mage Training Areana, and Blacksmithing bots arent that good. Compared to what ive read about RiD's mage training areana, and blacksmithing bots last time i checked were actually good, with few/no problems. When i check Nexus Black smithing bots, and mage training areana bot support thread last time, they were filled with "please update, and Fix Problem, and We Want New Developer." So i can give RiD a +1 for that. But with Nexus there is a wider variety of bots that you can choose from, Some Bad, Some Good. But RiD when checking all his support threads i rarely see any problems, and most the problems are usually fixed next update or a user messup.

Adam
08-05-2010, 07:19 AM
All i can say is lolz, I <3 RiD

Edward
08-05-2010, 07:50 AM
I like how Regulator changed his attitude dramatically. Maybe we can even expect a public apology soon for lying?

Win
08-05-2010, 09:12 AM
hey i like chicken

Triggerfinger
08-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Rofl wow regulator just apolagize seriously lol

Regulater
08-05-2010, 09:40 PM
Im not appologizing. I just rethought up what i said and put it into a bigger conclusion.

Regulater
08-05-2010, 09:47 PM
I compared RiD's bots toward Nexus bots, Then Nexis and RiD in general.

Win
08-06-2010, 12:02 AM
I compared RiD's bots toward Nexus bots, Then Nexis and RiD in general.

no1 cares dude

Son of Isis
02-18-2011, 03:01 AM
Thank you all for an entertaining evening of mobile RiD forum reading. Glad to be a part of this brigade of cyber junkies (no hurt feelings intended). I love watching people get owned time and time again. One question though... Why even bother throwing out a ridiculas opinionated flamethrower of a story anyway? Your not going to feel better about yourself and everyone is going to make fun of you. If you trash brilliant software amongst those whose personal experience can account for its greatness, you will be placed in stocks made to wear a dunce cap, and have rotten tomatoes lodged in your general direction. Thats all I have to say.. (and ps... android swype does the trick when browsing the forum on the go).

Art
02-18-2011, 06:50 PM
I like this guide, and I'll bear the rumour in mind, don't want to be getting a ban once I reach level 90 in a stat!

phen0m
02-18-2011, 06:57 PM
Interesting read, will keep in mind. Thanks.

Canadia
03-25-2011, 08:07 PM
This thread made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

I also feel a strong need to sex RiD.

Dorianking
04-07-2011, 02:15 AM
It took me an hr to read this but I'm glad I did. Both RiD and Nexus have their own merits but I honestly believe that RiD is a very well designed bot that doesn't get you banned. I do remember a long time ago, my secondary account got temp banned from MTA, don't remember if RiD remembers, but we discussed it over a PM in GMail/Sythe. I do vaguely remembering him saying that Jagex has recently gotten a hold of the autochat and used a list of lines to counter RiD, but only a select few were temp/perm banned; sadly me being one of them. There was also a time when somehow Jagex got a hold of the list of RiD's databases to all the accounts registered to him (this was at the time that your RSN was linked to RiD and it you wanted to change it, you would have to manually email him lol :P), there was a mass ban as well, related to macroing or not, I have no idea as I was luckily not in that scoop. Point of what I'm trying to say is, RiD is undetectable unless they somehow obtain RiD bot's code or whatever function that is used to run the bot.

On the other hand of Nexus, I personally have never been banned with paid script; of course they may have been luck, I do have an account that I botted 1-70 hunter for like a weekend straight, no breaks with a RSBots Bot, and I quit the account and RS/ RS community in general, recently have come which is like 1.5 years later, still no ban. With amateur scripts, banning is highly likely and we don't need to discuss this. However, amateur or pro scripts, I do agree that if people report you, there is more likelihood of Jagex considering your account more so than RiD, however one must never doubt the abilities of both bots. Each both has their own merits but they also have their own limitations. One issue I find with RiD is the amount of strain it requires from a computer, in regards to for the bot to run very smoothly, it requires your computer to have minimal lag (even though the bot does compensate for it) and I find that the computer must have sufficient memory run the javaw.exe more than Nexus. This may not be an issue for some, but as for me, I personally run the bot on a lower tier laptop while I use my desktop for normal use. Another limitation that annoys me to no end is the randoms; before I left the RS community and RiD, the bots could solve all the randoms, which essentially allows the bot to run all weekend without much observation; I am aware that the bot is now only able to finish some of the randoms, this hinders the bot from running for long periods of time which I find suits my needs. As a student, I usually leave the bot unattended because the only times I am at home are for sleeping and casual relaxing. During sleeping, I obviously can't watch over the bot and when I'm relaxing, it it usually for only a period of 3-4 hrs (I spend most of my time at school, lectures, studying, etc). With Nexus, I can run bots while I am sleeping or while I am at school and use the occasional TeamViewer peek at with my school laptop to see if it's runnning ok. Of course, once RiD fixes all the randoms, this will be a mute point. Anyways, I'm actually quite tired to think of any more stuff that I want to say, but if I do come up with more things; I will be sure to write them here.

All in all, don't judge a bot because of what people say. There will never be a perfect bot, some will come close, but there will always be some sort of setback. Just be aware that all bots have their own pros and cons, it's just a matter of which pros you take priority over. That is all. If you want to flame me go ahead, I feel I have vented what I needed to say sufficiently.


PS: Sorry for the gravedig :P

Saad490
10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
Interesting read, will keep in mind. Reflection Bots Down... Due To The Bot Nuke Update.

Mechmeret
10-31-2011, 03:34 PM
Nice read bro... Even though you will never read this yourself as you are banned lol >.<

Shpongled
11-01-2011, 05:38 AM
Definitely good info. Thanks for posting, where ever you are. :P

Shirlie
11-01-2011, 08:13 AM
Nice guide. Is this the unlimited guy who scammed Ed?

Mudkips
11-01-2011, 08:44 AM
Nice guide. Is this the unlimited guy who scammed Ed?

Yes, but I don't think he had unlimited :)

Edward
11-01-2011, 09:38 AM
Nice guide. Is this the unlimited guy who scammed Ed?

He used to have unlimited, sold it then scammed me. Still a good guide though I suppose although it was gravedug :)

Shirlie
11-01-2011, 09:40 AM
He used to have unlimited, sold it then scammed me. Still a good guide though I suppose although it was gravedug :)

What a hoe! :inimical

Trent!
08-01-2012, 11:47 AM
I think all the Bot Nuke "fags" needs to see this thread, it is filled with many many pages of epicness (and many posts by RiD!), so be sure to check all the pages ;)

I think it deserves to be gravedug every once in awhile ;)

Tenor
08-01-2012, 02:25 PM
I think all the Bot Nuke "fags" needs to see this thread, it is filled with many many pages of epicness (and many posts by RiD!), so be sure to check all the pages ;)

I think it deserves to be gravedug every once in awhile ;)

Gravedigs deserve an infraction :hug

krushsawa
08-17-2012, 10:18 PM
A Great Read , thanks for pointing this out to me Trent!